THE JESUS TOMB SHOW--BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGISTS REJECT DISCOVERY CHANNEL SHOW'S CLAIMS
You can tell things are coming unraveled when every Biblical archaeologist, save possibly one, interviewed either in the Discovery Channel special or in the hour long debate thereafter repudiates or is unpersuaded by the findings of the show. Both William Dever and Jonathan Reed were not merely dubious about the findings of the show. Reed actually called it archaeo-porn, the worst sort of misuse of archaeological evidence to support a tendentious theory that is so speculative it requires linking one weak hypothesis to another to another to reach a conclusion.
In addition, both Amos Kloner and Joe Zias, two of the original archaeologists involved in the project, have openly on television and in the public forum repudiated the findings of the show in strong terms. I have had a strongly worded email from Joe Zias in the last 24 hours saying that the data was deliberately manipulated at various points. I will come back to that point in a moment.
Since Charles Pellgrino, the co-author of the The Jesus Family Tomb book, is not a Biblical archaeologist at all, but rather a forensic one, and apparently has never dug a Biblical site, he certainly cannot count as an expert in this field either. This leaves only Shimon Gibson, which, if I am understanding things right (I am happy to be corrected on this), was only a young artist, a sketch artist for the original excavation of the Talpiot tomb. He says he is skeptical of the results, but then he says he is skeptical by nature. In other words, the show could not find the sort of experts in Biblical archaeology which would have lent real credence to their theory.
This stands in contrast to when Andre LeMaire was prepared to put his good reputation on the line to say that the James ossuary is genuine (and this word just in. He still thinks that, and the recent evidence presented in the trial in Jerusalem of genuine patina from the word 'Jesus' on the James box inscription provides further evidence for this conclusion).
Back to what Zias and I were discussing. It has to do with the James ossuary. First of all, the makers of this film and book were told that the tenth ossuary found in the Talpiot tomb was not missing. It was a blank, having neither ornamentation nor inscription, and so it was not catalogued with the other nine. However, on the show, mystery is concocted when the list of the nine catalogued ossuaries is presented and it is concluded one is missing, which is false.
Blank ossuaries are a dime a dozen. You can buy one in the market in Jerusalem for a very reasonable price. There never was a mystery about the 10th ossuary. One was concocted for this show. It is also the case that the makers of this film were told clearly that the tenth ossuary had no inscription and in addition did not match up with the dimensions of the James ossuary, which is the focus of the book Hershel Shanks and I wrote for Harper entitled The Brother of Jesus. More information about it can be found in that book.
There are further problems as well in connection with the James ossuary. The claim is made in the debate follow up show that Oded Golan said that somewhere around 1980 he bought the James ossuary. This is false. Golan has consistently maintained that he bought this ossuary before the Israeli law changed in 1978. In fact he claims to have bought it in the mid-70s and at the trial that continues in Jerusalem a 1970s era picture of him with the inscribed James ossuary was produced. The reason that the date is important is because after 1978 all such important artifacts found in Israel belong to the state of Israel. They cannot belong to a private collector like Oded Golan. For the reader wanting to see proof positive of this, see p. 84 of the Brother of Jesus book. The other reason that is important is it means the James ossuary could not possibly have come from the Talpiot tomb at all since it was not opened until 1980. The next feeble attempt to save the show's theory will perhaps be to claim there were other ossuaries in the Talpiot tomb that went missing from some break in. Not no. 10, but rather no 11 perhaps? Of course this will be a complete argument from silence. We do not know there were more than 10 ossuaries in that tomb ever.
Other sorts of problems that crop up from the show itself include:
1) The DNA lab in Thunder Bay was not told that they were testing alleged samples from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Why is this important? For the very good reason that the lab no doubt wishes to keep its good name, and not be associated with sensationalistic projects of dubious merit. Had they been told in advance, then at least they could have decided whether they wanted to be involved in the project. This is not how a free and open historical inquiry into a subject proceeds. It is not shrouded in secrecy until unveiled at a press conference in order to make big news, garner big ratings, and sell lots of books.
2) Ted Koppel's own correspondence with the DNA lab, and with the statistician reported in the follow up debate finds those folks doing their best to distance themselves from the conclusions of the show, and insisting that it is only a remote possibility.
3) At one juncture we are told that the name Mariamenon is found in Hippolytus a second century church historian. Two problems with this. Firstly so far as I can see, that name never occurs in the works of Hippolytus (and the name Mariamene is not the same name, see the previous post with Richard Bauckham's analysis of the names). Secondly, Hippolytus died in about A.D. 236. He comes to us from the end of the second century A.D. He could never have known any eywitnesses or even second-third generation followers of Jesus. Even if he did mention the name in question (the one on the ossuary found at Talpiot), he provides no early second century evidence for this name, much less for the theory that this name is one way of referring to Mary Magdalene. In fact the Acts of Philip, at best a fourth century document is the basis of the theory of Prof. Bovon that Mariamenon= Mary Magdalene, but nowhere in that document are the two equated. The woman referred to in that document is an evangelist in Greek who is the sister of Philip (whether Philip the apostle or the later Philip the evangelist found in Acts 8, we could debate). In other words, we have no hard evidence at all that equates Mary Magdalene with this particular name, or even with the later figure found in the Acts of Philip. There is then certainly no first or second century evidence that Mary Magdalene was every called by the name on the Talpiot ossuary, or would have been labeled this on a first century A.D. ossuary. And why again would her inscription be in Greek, and all the other ones in the tomb in Aramaic or Hebrew? We are not told.
4) Towards the end of the program itself, we discover that the intrepid amateur archaeologists, namely the film maker and his cohorts failed to even ask the IAA for permission to find and reopen the sealed Talpiot tomb. But this was an IAA controlled archaeological site now adjacent to an apartment complex. And when the IAA did find out about the snooping around in a tomb without permission, they came and put a stop to it. But the most interesting thing found when the filmmaker was in the tomb was a very large Greek inscription inside the tomb. What does this suggest? It suggests to me this is not the tomb of the Aramaic speaking family of Jesus of course!
5) Strong objection was taken in the debate program to the dramatizations in the show because they present the theory of the filmmakers as if they were facts. There are not, for example any dramatizations of other theories. What's the problem with this? Well as one professor from Virginia Seminary rightly pointed out, drama is powerful. It's a form of preaching and persuasion. If this really were an open ended historical inquiry and not an argument for a particular point of view, not a docu-drama, this sort of filming technique would not have been used.
6) No mention at all is made of the fact that though we only have a few hundred ossuaries with inscribed names, there is in fact another ossuary with the inscription 'Jesus son of Joseph'. Apparently this was not a rare combination of names at all, and in any case, as I have said Jesus of Nazareth is never called 'son of Joseph' by his family, or by his disciples. Notice how Luke pours cold water on that theory in Luke 3.21-- "Now Jesus himself was about 30 when he began his ministry, he was the son, so it was supposed/thought, of Joseph." Supposed by whom? Clearly not by Luke or the family whom Luke has just shown knew about the virginal conception of Jesus. Even the cousins knew about this miracle when Mary told Elizabeth. There can be no good reason Luke would put it this way if he knew the earliest followers of Jesus or members of his family had thought that Jesus was son of Joseph.
7) The unique theory presented in the show is that John 19 presents a conversation between Jesus on the cross and his wife Mary Magdalene, with their son being the Beloved Disciple! The problem of course with this is that Jesus is addressing his own mother, Mary. John 19.26 is quite clear--- Jesus saw his mother standing there, and spoke to her about the Beloved Disciple, who is certainly not his son. In John 13 and following the Beloved Disciple is portrayed as one of the adult disciples in the upper room. Not as a child. Here is but one more example of how normal interpretations of the Biblical evidence are ignored and rejected in favor of rewriting the text to support the theory, and much later non-eyewitness Gnostic evidence from the Acts of Philip is made crucial to the case, even when that evidence itself does not likely support the case at all!
8) An important further corollary was pointed out as well. This special is an example of film-making, not good investigative journalism. Consider for example the difference between how this project was pursued and say the efforts of Robert Graysmith, recently blogged about here, who took years and years of investigating without pay to be able to demonstrate who the Zodiac killer was. He did not present his evidence in book form until he was sure. Until he chased down all leads. Until he convinced at least some of the police he had been bugging for years to consider this or that piece of evidence and solve the case. This docu-drama falls far short of what would be called good investigative journalism.
To paraphrase a famous phrase "This is how a bad theory ends, this is how a bad theory ends, not with a bang, but a whimper."
In addition, both Amos Kloner and Joe Zias, two of the original archaeologists involved in the project, have openly on television and in the public forum repudiated the findings of the show in strong terms. I have had a strongly worded email from Joe Zias in the last 24 hours saying that the data was deliberately manipulated at various points. I will come back to that point in a moment.
Since Charles Pellgrino, the co-author of the The Jesus Family Tomb book, is not a Biblical archaeologist at all, but rather a forensic one, and apparently has never dug a Biblical site, he certainly cannot count as an expert in this field either. This leaves only Shimon Gibson, which, if I am understanding things right (I am happy to be corrected on this), was only a young artist, a sketch artist for the original excavation of the Talpiot tomb. He says he is skeptical of the results, but then he says he is skeptical by nature. In other words, the show could not find the sort of experts in Biblical archaeology which would have lent real credence to their theory.
This stands in contrast to when Andre LeMaire was prepared to put his good reputation on the line to say that the James ossuary is genuine (and this word just in. He still thinks that, and the recent evidence presented in the trial in Jerusalem of genuine patina from the word 'Jesus' on the James box inscription provides further evidence for this conclusion).
Back to what Zias and I were discussing. It has to do with the James ossuary. First of all, the makers of this film and book were told that the tenth ossuary found in the Talpiot tomb was not missing. It was a blank, having neither ornamentation nor inscription, and so it was not catalogued with the other nine. However, on the show, mystery is concocted when the list of the nine catalogued ossuaries is presented and it is concluded one is missing, which is false.
Blank ossuaries are a dime a dozen. You can buy one in the market in Jerusalem for a very reasonable price. There never was a mystery about the 10th ossuary. One was concocted for this show. It is also the case that the makers of this film were told clearly that the tenth ossuary had no inscription and in addition did not match up with the dimensions of the James ossuary, which is the focus of the book Hershel Shanks and I wrote for Harper entitled The Brother of Jesus. More information about it can be found in that book.
There are further problems as well in connection with the James ossuary. The claim is made in the debate follow up show that Oded Golan said that somewhere around 1980 he bought the James ossuary. This is false. Golan has consistently maintained that he bought this ossuary before the Israeli law changed in 1978. In fact he claims to have bought it in the mid-70s and at the trial that continues in Jerusalem a 1970s era picture of him with the inscribed James ossuary was produced. The reason that the date is important is because after 1978 all such important artifacts found in Israel belong to the state of Israel. They cannot belong to a private collector like Oded Golan. For the reader wanting to see proof positive of this, see p. 84 of the Brother of Jesus book. The other reason that is important is it means the James ossuary could not possibly have come from the Talpiot tomb at all since it was not opened until 1980. The next feeble attempt to save the show's theory will perhaps be to claim there were other ossuaries in the Talpiot tomb that went missing from some break in. Not no. 10, but rather no 11 perhaps? Of course this will be a complete argument from silence. We do not know there were more than 10 ossuaries in that tomb ever.
Other sorts of problems that crop up from the show itself include:
1) The DNA lab in Thunder Bay was not told that they were testing alleged samples from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Why is this important? For the very good reason that the lab no doubt wishes to keep its good name, and not be associated with sensationalistic projects of dubious merit. Had they been told in advance, then at least they could have decided whether they wanted to be involved in the project. This is not how a free and open historical inquiry into a subject proceeds. It is not shrouded in secrecy until unveiled at a press conference in order to make big news, garner big ratings, and sell lots of books.
2) Ted Koppel's own correspondence with the DNA lab, and with the statistician reported in the follow up debate finds those folks doing their best to distance themselves from the conclusions of the show, and insisting that it is only a remote possibility.
3) At one juncture we are told that the name Mariamenon is found in Hippolytus a second century church historian. Two problems with this. Firstly so far as I can see, that name never occurs in the works of Hippolytus (and the name Mariamene is not the same name, see the previous post with Richard Bauckham's analysis of the names). Secondly, Hippolytus died in about A.D. 236. He comes to us from the end of the second century A.D. He could never have known any eywitnesses or even second-third generation followers of Jesus. Even if he did mention the name in question (the one on the ossuary found at Talpiot), he provides no early second century evidence for this name, much less for the theory that this name is one way of referring to Mary Magdalene. In fact the Acts of Philip, at best a fourth century document is the basis of the theory of Prof. Bovon that Mariamenon= Mary Magdalene, but nowhere in that document are the two equated. The woman referred to in that document is an evangelist in Greek who is the sister of Philip (whether Philip the apostle or the later Philip the evangelist found in Acts 8, we could debate). In other words, we have no hard evidence at all that equates Mary Magdalene with this particular name, or even with the later figure found in the Acts of Philip. There is then certainly no first or second century evidence that Mary Magdalene was every called by the name on the Talpiot ossuary, or would have been labeled this on a first century A.D. ossuary. And why again would her inscription be in Greek, and all the other ones in the tomb in Aramaic or Hebrew? We are not told.
4) Towards the end of the program itself, we discover that the intrepid amateur archaeologists, namely the film maker and his cohorts failed to even ask the IAA for permission to find and reopen the sealed Talpiot tomb. But this was an IAA controlled archaeological site now adjacent to an apartment complex. And when the IAA did find out about the snooping around in a tomb without permission, they came and put a stop to it. But the most interesting thing found when the filmmaker was in the tomb was a very large Greek inscription inside the tomb. What does this suggest? It suggests to me this is not the tomb of the Aramaic speaking family of Jesus of course!
5) Strong objection was taken in the debate program to the dramatizations in the show because they present the theory of the filmmakers as if they were facts. There are not, for example any dramatizations of other theories. What's the problem with this? Well as one professor from Virginia Seminary rightly pointed out, drama is powerful. It's a form of preaching and persuasion. If this really were an open ended historical inquiry and not an argument for a particular point of view, not a docu-drama, this sort of filming technique would not have been used.
6) No mention at all is made of the fact that though we only have a few hundred ossuaries with inscribed names, there is in fact another ossuary with the inscription 'Jesus son of Joseph'. Apparently this was not a rare combination of names at all, and in any case, as I have said Jesus of Nazareth is never called 'son of Joseph' by his family, or by his disciples. Notice how Luke pours cold water on that theory in Luke 3.21-- "Now Jesus himself was about 30 when he began his ministry, he was the son, so it was supposed/thought, of Joseph." Supposed by whom? Clearly not by Luke or the family whom Luke has just shown knew about the virginal conception of Jesus. Even the cousins knew about this miracle when Mary told Elizabeth. There can be no good reason Luke would put it this way if he knew the earliest followers of Jesus or members of his family had thought that Jesus was son of Joseph.
7) The unique theory presented in the show is that John 19 presents a conversation between Jesus on the cross and his wife Mary Magdalene, with their son being the Beloved Disciple! The problem of course with this is that Jesus is addressing his own mother, Mary. John 19.26 is quite clear--- Jesus saw his mother standing there, and spoke to her about the Beloved Disciple, who is certainly not his son. In John 13 and following the Beloved Disciple is portrayed as one of the adult disciples in the upper room. Not as a child. Here is but one more example of how normal interpretations of the Biblical evidence are ignored and rejected in favor of rewriting the text to support the theory, and much later non-eyewitness Gnostic evidence from the Acts of Philip is made crucial to the case, even when that evidence itself does not likely support the case at all!
8) An important further corollary was pointed out as well. This special is an example of film-making, not good investigative journalism. Consider for example the difference between how this project was pursued and say the efforts of Robert Graysmith, recently blogged about here, who took years and years of investigating without pay to be able to demonstrate who the Zodiac killer was. He did not present his evidence in book form until he was sure. Until he chased down all leads. Until he convinced at least some of the police he had been bugging for years to consider this or that piece of evidence and solve the case. This docu-drama falls far short of what would be called good investigative journalism.
To paraphrase a famous phrase "This is how a bad theory ends, this is how a bad theory ends, not with a bang, but a whimper."
posted by Ben Witherington at 4:04 AM
134 Comments:
I enjoyed the film the lost tomb of jesus. It was well made and fair (even if it's hypothosis turns out to be false one day). However, the Koppel analysis after the film was horrible. Why does he have problems with adding dramatization to the film? Isn't this a common practice in any history/discovery channel documentary?
The show was interesting, but rather less than convincing. I enjoyed like some people enjoy Harlequin, sort of harmless fun. Just wish it hadn't been on so darn late.
Thanks for deconstructing it. If any of my readers want to read more, I'll send them your way.
Hello again Ben and all,
After finally watching the Jesus Tomb documentary and the hour of critical look "debates" following it, I am left with the sad conclusion that a large percentage of Christians will always oppose the truth, regardless of how it is presented. It has been amazing to watch people who regularly oppose critical thought and science hypocritically assert that critical thought and science supports so-called "biblical evidence" in their efforts to debunk this archeological find and associated theories. Though I too have problems with the way this documentary and religion in general have been sold, for profit, I also think this information deserves a much closer examination and consideration than a simple knee jerk defense of New Testament claims. Do Christians really think that the Creator of all knowledge and wisdom wants them to blindly oppose all newly discovered truths?
When finally confronted with the truth about the Messiah, these people will be completely unable to recognize the true Messiah (me) from long-term lies and will fight tooth and nail to cling to the Roman deceptions and strong delusions of the New Testament. Christianity has always been an enemy of science, truth, and justice and recent events strongly reinforce this observation.
Read More ...
Here is Wisdom !!
Dr. Witherington,
I thank God for Biblical scholars like yourself who can expose false interpretations of the truth and at the same time equip the body of Christ to "contend for the faith."
Blessings.
I would have prefered that Koppel spent more time with the experts and less time with Tabor and Jacobovici.
The film itself was so extremely biased an un-journalistic that I would have really like to see more refutation of points that were presented as fact. For instance, the film implies that the Acts of Phillip carries the same historical weight and authority as the Gospels. It also implied that Mariamne was clearly known to be Mary Magdalene.
I was grateful that Koppel raised doubt about the conclusions of the patina analysis. That was probably the most compelling aspect of the Jacobovici film. It was interesting to watch the way Jacobovici waffled on this point, using semantics to assert that he hadn't exagerated but still trying to bolster his case by insisting "match" was a legal term used with fingerprints.
Almost all of Jacobovici's arguments were hollow. For instance his assertion that he made every effort to present both sides of the argument. However, watching his film, I was struck by the way that he always presented conflicting assertions in a kind of strawman fashion, presenting his own conclusions as a more logical point of view.
If the dramatizations were to have had any journalistic merit then they should have shown the points of view of some archaeological experts and not simply Jacobovici's speculative conclusions.
www.wildrye.com
Apart from the sensationalistic aspect, I don't understand what they hoped to gain by promoting something so blatantly fraudulent. If they were simply stupid people, then I can understand that they were way over their heads, but Cameron is not stupid. So, what is the point here? What are they trying to prove?
Dr. Witherington,
I appreciate your continuing coverage on this issue.
1) Under your point #3, you question why the Mariamne tomb was inscribed in Greek.
I do think they briefly tried to explain this in the documentary by saying that Migdala was an important trading center where Greek and Aramaic would both be common. From that statement, they then leapt to the conclusion that it would be likely for Mary Magdalene's family to inscribe her ossuary in Greek.
It was certainly a tenuous connection, but I do think they superficially addressed it.
2) I thought it was interesting in the after-show when Tabor and Jacobovichi were emphatic that the statistical probabilities were just based on the rarity of the "Mariamne" name and had nothing to do with "Mary Magdalene".
Of course, if that was true, then there's no justification for that name even being in the tomb, and it should be removed from the calculations.
The ratio then drops from 600-1 to 3.8 to 1.
I am a physicist so I looked at the patina chemical analyses in the book carefully to see if they actually make a good match. The book showed the profiles for the Jesus and Mariamenou ossuaries from the tomb and also for the James ossuary. There are some discrepancies:
1) The James ossuary has a small copper peak that is completely missing in both the Jesus and Maremenou ossuaries.
2) The silicon peak in the James ossuary is substantially lower than the silicon peak in the Jesus and Mariamenou ossuaries.
3) The aluminum peak in the James ossuary appears to be quite a bit smaller than the aluminum peak in the Jesus and Mariamenou ossuaries.
All of this undercuts one of the apparently sexiest pieces of evidence that the book/documentary presented--the chemical fingerprint.
There are also, of course, extraordinary problems with the statistical analysis presented in the book/documentary. These have been well-noted on this blog, but I have not seen an attempt by anyone to estimate the true probability that the Jesus of the tomb is Jesus of Nazareth. I have made some reasonable assumptions and have computed an estimate. (Please note, this is an ESTIMATE that depends on a number of assumptions.)
Years ago, I wrote a book analyzing the alleged "Bible codes." The Bible coders were claiming marvelous coincidences and extremely low probabilities. I developed techniques for analyzing such claims.
I have applied these same techniques to the claims for the alleged Jesus family tomb. I estimate that at least 11 men in Jerusalem could have fit the profile of the Jesus of the tomb. But one must argue very strongly that Jesus of Nazareth was not one of these 11, because the historical evidence is strongly against the possibility that he had a son. (It's not easy to hide a wife and son when you have no reason to. The "reasons" suggested by Jacobovici are weak.)
This allows you then to estimate the odds that the Jesus of the tomb is the Jesus of Nazareth.
If, for example, you believe that the odds of Jesus having had a son are less than "1 in a 1000", then you would estimate the odds that the Jesus of the tomb is Jesus of Nazareth at "less than 1 in 11000".
Obviously, there is a historical judgment that needs to be made here that will strongly affect the final result. But my key observation is that the observed collection of inscribed names on the ossuaries is not rare.
The arcaheologists have all said this in a general way, without doing the calculations. I have done the calculations.
The expected number of men in Jerusalem who fit this profile can be estimated as "at least 11".
The only thing which I hadn't known from the Internet resources was that Jacobovichi tries to make a connection between the supposed 'Judeo-Christian' tomb site at Dominus Flevit and the Talpiot tomb by discovering an ossuary there which had a symbol similar to the one on the Talpiot tomb entrance. He claims that this gives context to the archeological find at Talpiot: we've got a whole network of early Christian burial sites, people! Another stunning piece of speculation untethered to evidence.
I greatly enjoyed the critical panel after the show, but I was surprised that no one brought up the fact that in our earliest sources for Mary Magdalene, the four canonical Gospels, she is referred to by the same name as Jesus' mother, Maria or Mariam. Also, it was interesting to see James Tabor try to explain why Amos Kloner's report says that the 10th ossuary was plain and without inscription: the cataloging was done so hastily that they missed the inscription the first time around. I'm not buying it. They found the inscriptions on all the other inscribed ossuaries, why would they have missed this one? And where are the original excavation notes by Joseph Gath, and do they have different facts from that in Amos Kloner's report?
seven star hand, get off this blogspace. I wonder if you realize that in your absurd messianic claims you are fulfilling a prophecy from Matthew 24 about false Christs and false prophets arising to deceive the very elect. Jesus told us, "If they say to you, here is Christ, or, there he is, believe them not nor follow after them".
Thanks to you Randy for this analysis. I was troubled by that seen in regard to the aptina match, because in fact if you looked when they did the overlay there were various things that didn't match, and some places where there was a much higher spike on one than the other, even to a lay man's eyes like mine.
As for Migdal, it is simply false that it was amajor cosmopolitan commericial center. It was a tiny Jewish fishing village--- give me a break! No one who has been there and compare it to Bethsaida just up the road could ever come to that conclusion about Migdal. Their explanation is one based on ignorance apparently.
This post has been removed by the author.
My question (and I'm sure this has already been asked) is this: What evidence would a faithful evangelical accept that would falsify the particulars of his own belief. What would support an opposite conclusion? Apologetics asserts that objective evidence leads the way to orthodox Christian conclusions. If that's the case and Christian faith is upheld by easily perceived evidence, there must be SOME hypothetical evidence that (if true) would point away from the faith. What might those things be? What findings would refute orthodox belief? Anything?
I'm convinced that nothing, no matter how compelling, could ever penetrate the mile-thick wall of bias encircling the evangelical world. Even a vision in the heavens observable by everyone on earth wouldn't qualify ("It's a lying wonder!")
The only conceivable response from orthodox evangelicals to any unfriendly evidence is, "How do we refute this new attack against the faith of our fathers?" Such scrambling to come up with swift counter-claims is unbecoming of such a venerable tradition.
Maybe the Talpiot tomb isn't at all what some purport it to be. But it certainly has uncovered the dearth of objectivity among certain sectors of Christendom.
Dear all,
I am not one to post my work on another blog, but I wanted to post the following, which is the article I wrote on the Jesus Family Tomb documentary, since the discussion at this blog was so very helpful to me.
It can be found here.
Best,
Jay
I had a few thoughts on the documentary that I thought I would share:
1. I thought it was really quite boring. This surprised me. Having read all the stuff on line, having read Tabor's blog, and having read the book -- I thought I would be thoroughly infuriated, and -- by extension -- captivated. But I was not.
2. I would guess that most people, even those not qualified to judge the claims, were probably unconvinced. I think the reason is the "Jesus son of Joseph" ossuary itself. It just so obviously could not have belonged to Jesus. There is no way his weeping, bereaved followers would have buried him in that lousy box. That is where an in-law whom the family did not like would get buried. "Oh, Mary's wife Jesus died? Boo-hoo. Put him in the spare box."
This, I think, is an important factor. In cinematic terms, the Jesus ossuary is the "shark." You don't want to show the shark too early, which of course they did. You also don't want to make it obvious that the shark is mechanical. Otherwise, you are going to get laughs. I think that is what they got here.
3. I was surprised by how aggressive Koppel was on the panel afterwards. I think Simcha was, too -- and I think he acquited himself very poorly. He even pimped his book at the end, which is just plain tacky.
4. My wife and I also noted the fact that the "James" and "Mariamne" patinas do not match. Importantly, all the documentarians seem to have done is eye-balled the patina "pings." It appears they did not statistical hypothesis test, like ANOVA, to actually evaluate whether the eye-balling was pointing to something valid. Even then, it is only with a sample of exclusively similar soils could ANOVA (or analysis of variance) actually indicate they are from the same place.
5. I was struck by Tabor arguing that the whole "James" case is circumstantial. That, I think, is a costly admission. What about all of the circumstantial evidence that goes against placing James there?
6. I was surprised to see Tabor at the crime lab receiving the DNA results. I was also surprised that he stayed around for the "theological implications" section of the discussion. I thought that he was more tangential.
7. I would have liked to have seen a discussion about the ethics of airing a potentially earth-shattering claim in this way. I had, at several points this week, mentioned my ethical concerns to Tabor -- and he seemed to dismissed them as the empty rhetoric of a Christian evangelical. However, the concern is based upon the work of Philip Kitcher -- Science, Truth and Democracy. Kitcher argues that scientific truths should be weighed against their social consequences. For instance, a supposed scientific claim that might show that a relatively powerless demographic group in our sociey are not naturally intelligent as another group should not be publicizied, even if true, because it would endanger an already endangered group. Closer to home, this is why almost all of us oppose genetic screening of fetuses. It could lead to eugenics.
This claim seems to me to possibly fit into this category: even if true, it is best that society not know. Maybe, maybe not. But it seems to me that this is the kind of debate that those who offer the claim should have with themselves: what are the potential social effects?
It is eminently clear, is it not, that these men did not have this conversation. That they were blithely ignorant of the potential social impact. That, to the extent that they were aware, they used it to promote the book.
This is what infuriates me the most. The utter social irresponsibility that was evidenced here. I would have liked to have seen Koppel put Simcha on the spot for that.
One thing struck me again and again while watching Koppel's forum after the documentary: the clash of two worlds, fantasy vs. reality. Simcah J. and Tabor could only rant and rave as their sloppy manipulation of the facts were brought out into the light of day and exposed. Tabor's mis-identification of Hippolytus as 2nd rather than 3rd century was a true Freudian slip: it revealed how he is accustomed to MAKING history fit into his pre-conceived notions. Simcha J.'s behavior was totally unprofessional and he made himself look like an uneducated, rude hick, unable to engage in serious scholarly debate.
One thing from the documentary itself: wouldn't Simcah J. and his team be up for charges from the Israeli government since they BROKE INTO the "Jesus Tomb" without any permission from the IAA? This illegal entry is on tape, what would it take for the Israeli gov't. to investigate this?
Dr. Witherington, in closing let me say that I have more respect for you than ever for choosing not to respond to James Tabor's vicious and childish personal attacks against you which he has posted on his "Jesus Dynasty" blog. The man is a wounded, cornered rat, lashing out at any target and he chose you because you are the best known Christian scholar who has dared to criticize him. I have never been so ashamed of being an alumnus of UNC-Charlotte and I have already contacted the alumni office about this whole sordid affair. "Shameful" is the only word I can think of to describe Tabor's involvement in, and continued defense of, this mess.
"What evidence would a faithful evangelical accept that would falsify the particulars of his own belief."
As with all orthodox Christians, not just evangelicals, to disprove Christianity all you need to do is find the earthly remains of Jesus. It's clear the ossuary from Talpiot never held His remains, so skeptics will have to keep looking for the evidence that Jesus is not risen from the dead.
Good luck with that.
I found the Tomb of Jesus’Family simply a somewhat entertaining movie myth. It’s approach is rather similar to that of my play The Da Vinci Code meets The Gospel of Judas, except that this movie myth seeks to convince people that its wild speculations are factual while my play is purely comedic parody.
The twisted myth dramatization with Mary Magdalene and Jesus’ “son” at the cross was, I must say, a shameless distortion of the texts that refer to this event. As a father of four children I cannot imagine myself saying to my wife under any circumstances, “Mother, behold your son.” She knows perfectly well who her children are. It is because a new kinship relationship is being formed that this statement makes sense. And of course, the passages are perfectly clear that Jesus was talking to his mother and the beloved disciple cannot possibly be Jesus’ son. It is simply ludicrous that they should contrive this scenario.
I found the Ted Koppel interviews unfortunately weak. Though he tried, Koppel was unable to effectively restrain the commandeering outbursts of Jacobovici who managed to usurp other people’s talking time repeatedly. It was particularly amazing when he actually pushed down the arm of Tabor, his sidekick, to stop him from commenting.
The theologians Koppel brought in were particularly unprepared to refute the films claims. They looked as if they were extemporaneously developing responses without any plan to focus on the serious flaws of the movie. The professor from the Virginia Seminary was the most articulate. The Catholic and Protestant theologians drifted off into discussions of what the Resurrection was like and faith issues that simply do nothing to refute what is purported to be the hard evidence of the movie myth’s claims.
Were these theologians allowed to preview the movie at least a day or two prior to the movie’s release? If so, why didn’t they carefully prepare to address specific issues? They should have focused on the validity of the New Testaments texts as the earliest sources of these accounts and totally discredit 3rd and 4th century stories. They should have noted that the movie myth clearly implies a conspiratorial effort by Jesus’ family and disciples to perpetrate a great hoax on humanity and they could have then turned the table on the producers of the film as the hoaxers.
I am reminded of the saying, “From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by for force.” Though the absurdities of the movie myth may in time bring about its self-destruction, a carefully prepared refutation (the force) by the theologians could have expedited its demise.
Jay wrote on his blog,
"This testimony further indicates that all parties - the Romans, the Jewish temple authority, the Christians - agreed that the body had gone missing. "
I would appreciate it if you could provide the appropriate Jewish and Roman references written in close proximity to the actual crucifixion.
Albert --
That was a reference to Matthew 28:11-16. I should have inserted the adjective "Christian" -- as in, "the earliest Christian testimony."
Best,
Jay
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Daniel, do you really want these guys thrown in jail? Is that what Jesus would do? Aren't you content with the knowledge that God will someday thrown them into the infernal pit?
And also, I wouldn't throw too many stones over the issue of "pre-conceived notions." You guys are hardly paragons of unbiased investigation yourselves.
Jose,
I do not think the theologians drifted from the merits of the film. There comments were shaped by the questions asked them by Koppel.
They were talking about the resurrection because this was precisely the type of questions that were being asked to them by Koppel.
It seemed to me that Dever and the other guest were brought in to weigh more pointedly on the specific claims being made in the film while the three theologians were brought in to address the implications of the film for the Christian faith if in fact the Tomb did contain Jesus' bones.
Ben,
I was rather surprised at how unaware Mr. Tabor was about the true impact of his claims on Christianity. I saw the discussion after the special and he stated that most Christians don't even believe in a bodily resurrection. I was glad to see that one of the "theologians" that were there corrected him on that point but it just goes to show that he is either very irresponsible or simply ignorant about the possible impact of his claims. Although, after reading some of his material and seeing his credentials, it is obvious that he is simply a heretic. Tabor is the chair of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte for crying out loud! I would like to know how these nut jobs get such high positions in Universities. It seems that the crazier you are, the better the job you get!
Steve-
I'm assuming you missed where William Dever stated he wasn't a Believer and, thus, 'had no dog in this fight'. What say you of his skepticism on this whole ordeal? Furthermore, if it were only Evangelical scholars refuting these claims, would you not expect more scientists to be backing Cameron, Simcha, and Tabor? The scientists, and 'experts', used in the film were distancing themselves from the filmmaker's hypotheses. This doesn't seem to be a blind refutation of the facts by Christians, as you claim.
Moving along, I have to say that the show had me audibly laughing at times. It seemed so cheesy the way Simcha would act as if they had just uncovered a long buried mystery by locating the ossuaries in the storage warehouse. I also couldn't help but laugh when they were in the actual tomb and Simcha said 'This is where they laid the body of Jesus!'...I mean, was anybody taking him seriously at this point?
I found the post-show forum to be very revealing into the character of Tabor and Jacobvici. While Tabor just looked overwhelmed, and seemed to stammer through his weak explanations, Simcha came off as a blustering, arrogant, and defensive man. I thought it was very interesting that BOTH Simcha and Tabor stated that the two Mary's in the tomb could be RELATIVES to the Jesus present in the tomb. I didn't hear them amend their 'statistical' evidence in which they assumed Mary to be the mother of the Jesus in the tomb. Of course, thanks to Jay, we're all aware of the statistical flaws used in the film. I just found it interesting they were contradicting their own claims.
The final laugh was when Jacobvici pushed Tabor's hand back down onto the chair after stating 'I know what they want to talk about. But I want to talk about what I want to talk about'. That, of course, received a healthy round of laughter from the forum. If Tabor wasn't embarrassed before, then this should have done it. I also thought Bock did a very good job staying on point to the questions asked of him as well as pointing out the errors both Simcha and, mostly, Tabor were making. Father O'Connell seemed like he didn't know why he was there. I didn't follow his arguments AT ALL. In fact, I was thinking 'please be quiet'. He said in the beginning that Jesus NOT rising from the dead, physically, and Jesus having a son with Mary M. was not problematic to his Faith....OK, well it is to mine. But later he stated that the core of Christian belief is that Jesus DID physically rise from the dead. Well, which is it Father? Sorry, don't mean to pick on him but it stood out to me.
Professor Witherington,
Thank you very much for your diligent research into these matters. You have been extremely helpful and informative and I pray God's blessings into your life.
On the controversy, an analogy. Say you lived in a large metro area, say Chicago, and had friends from church named Tom, Karen, and children Rob, Ann, and Timmy. If you heard of a car accident where a man named Tom and his wife and son were killed, you would think little of it in a big place like Chicago. But if you heard that it was Tom, Karen, and Timmy, you would certainly assume that it was your friends, or an unbelievable coincidence. You would not question where the other children were, or how many men named Tom live in Chicago. This is the evidence that has been presented and it is compelling. That doesn't mean it's accurate, just compelling. If this same type of evidence were presented about something that confirmed a Biblical historicity, we would be very inclined to believe it.
It is understandable why Christians have been dubious about the claims, but the barely contained hysteria is problematic. At a minimum, Christian scholars should be clear that they seek the truth, and should be adamant in their call for continued investigation of this tomb and its contents. I have not yet heard that call. Our credibility with those to whom we are called to proclaim the gospel, is on the line.
Brian:
This tomb has been investigated to death. The only thing more of substance that could be done is more DNA tests on the other ossuaries and on the James ossuary. If none matched with the James one would be more certain that it didn't come from Talpiot, which the rest of the evidence suggests any.
Steve J. you have every right to ask what would count as evidence against the Christian faith, since it is a faith which is grounded in history, and not just some philosophy. The answer to that is not hard to come by. If, for example, it could be proved beyond reasonable doubt that the bones of Jesus had been found, and all the reports of having seen Jesus after his death were fraudulent, that would certainly count as evidence against the Christian faith. If it could be shown that Jesus never existed that would count as evidence against it. If it could be shown beyond a reasonable doubt, as the Koran says, Jesus didn't die on the cross, that would count as evidence against it. If we found first century documents written by eyewitnesses that contradicted the claims in the Gospels in substantive ways, that would have to count against it. Say if there was someone who had been a follower of Jesus who bailed out and told all about what he saw as a hoax, that must count as evidence against.
Historians must take seriously the earliest, most credible, and eyewitness evidence. This is just good historiography. The documentary presents us with no evidence of any of this sort, and so deserves to be label 'incredible' rather than 'credible' even from just a purely historical basis. The rise of the Christian movement after the horrific death of Jesus on the cross cannot be explained by such feeble theories as those presented in this show and book.
BW3
I am posting the substance of an email a colleague of mine sent to Mark Goodacre that raises issues that seem to be central to the Jesus Tomb case. Tabor sat there last night essentially claiming that Amos Kolner was incompetent and that Tabor held documentation suggesting that the measurements of the supposedly missing 10th Talpiot ossuary were the same as the James ossuary. See point 2) below. I don't know if either of Greg's points are valid, but they seem to be central to the discussion and are definitely worth following up on:
"1) Jose: They made a big deal about how rare the name Jose was, (if I remember right) claiming that the Gospel references to Jesus' brother pretty much exhausted its occurrence in our inventory. How about Mark 15: 40, 46? Doesn't appear to be all that rare. This seems to be a BIG factual blunder on their part.
2. Alleged Ossuary Measurements: Tabor is either lying or mistaken on the measurements of the James ossuary. He claimed he has copies of Joseph Gath’s original documents (from which Kolner made his report), and he confidently asserted that the measurements of the “missing” ossuary were the same as the James ossuary. See http://www.bibleprobe.com/jamesossuary.htm for an earlier discussion (date unknown) of this issue by Tabor (ASIDE: He isn’t sure whether the James ossuary was pilfered from the Shroud Tomb or the Talpiot tomb, but he’s determined that it came from one of Jesus’ tombs).
Tabor specifically states (http://www.bibleprobe.com/jamesossuary.htm) that the measurements of the “missing” ossuary were “60 by 26 by 30 centimeters” (23.622 X 10.23 x 11.8 inches). He goes on to state that “I noticed that the dimensions of the missing tenth ossuary are precisely the same, to the centimeter, to those of the James Ossuary.”
However, I have found two sources on the James ossuary which seem to refute his claims:
(1) http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/westsem/james.html
35 centimeters high (13.7 inches)50 centimeters long (19.6 inches)
(2) http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Official_Report.htm
“20 inches in length; the shape is a trapezoid: 10 inches in width at one end and 12 inches at the other”
The two James ossuary measurement accounts I found (one of them on an official IAA report by Dr. Rochelle I. Altman that can be found all over the web) do not agree with the measurements of the 10th Talpiot ossuary in the account of James Tabor. I am curious as to which body orifice Tabor excavated his James ossuary measurements.
Greg Johnston"
I hope someone will follow up on these issues and get them into the public debate if they are as valid as they seem to me.
Benjamin Lewis
Stevenj
I find your posts disrespectful and full of nonsense.
What evidence would it take to overturn Christian belief? Well let's see, evidence period would help, not a movie by people making a mountain out of mole hill.
And let me ask you this, how much evidence would it take to show that God exists and Christ is raised? I'm not a Christian, but I'm becoming convinced Jesus is who he said he was and is risen. Do me a favor and don't lecture Christians. You aren't any good at it.
Why doesn't Discovery do a followup with all of this information? This certainly makes more sense of the data than anything that WAS seen on TV. You would think Discovery would be committed to the truth and give as much airtime to this information as it is certainly more compelling than what they did air.
ON the "mysterious" chevron and circle, please see:
http://confirmedword.blogspot.com/
R. Kirk Kilpatrick, Ph.D.
Brian-
I tend to disagree with you on this point.
The facts of this 'docu-drama' were so skewed to support the filmmakers' hypotheses, that I feel it was definitely necessary for people to speak out strongly against it. Unfortunately, there are many people who call themselves Christians who are not aware of the ACTUAL facts surrounding this case. The same can be said for un-believers.
Touting these claims as a 600:1 shot of being wrong is absurdly misrepresentive of the facts. There is no reason to sit idly by while people spread what are, essentially, lies. I do agree that a certain level of composure must be maintained, but it seems to me that is exactly what has happened here.
There should be no shame in quickly denouncing these fraudulent claims.
Is this particular shoddily researched Discovery Show indicative of their other shows??
Ben,
Do you find anything odd about Tabor seemingly so behind Simcha's conclusions given what he (Tabor) wrote in 'The Jesus Dynasty'? Several points puzzle me.
1. Tabor claims there is "reasonable ciricumstantial evidence" that the James ossuary was from the Tomb of the Shroud he discovered in 2000 (p. 20). He wonders whether this Tomb of the Shroud is the Jesus family tomb. However, in the Discovery special he seems completely behind Simcha's conclusion that the Talpiot tomb is probably the Jesus tomb.
2. Tabor argues that all of Jesus' brothers were among the twelve disciples (p. 164-65). This leads him to suggest the possibility that Jesus' brother Joseph (whom Simacha is quite certain is Jose) was also known as Matthew. Tabor then reminds us of the Talpiot ossuary with "Matthew" inscribed. This is a bit confusing. Is the "Jose" ossuary Jesus' brother Joseph or is the "Matthew" ossuary Jesus' brother? Which ossuary does Tabor think likely held Jesus' brother Joseph's reminas?
3. Tabor argues that the "beloved disciples" is James (p. 206-07 and elsewhere). Yet, on the special there is no hint of this view of his. Rather, the special claims it was likely Jesus' son Judah. Again, it is strange that Tabor puts himself in a position of supporting the claims of the special when his conclusions in his book are very different in some of these areas.
4. Tabor spends a fair amount of space suggesting that Jesus may actually be burried in Tsfat, Galilee (p. 237-40). Interestingly he bases this on a 16th century tradition while quickly dismissing elswhere the 3rd and 5th century traditions which have Jesus' tomb at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre or the Garden Tomb. Anyway, one gets the impression from the special that he agrees with Simcha that Talpiot is the tomb. Now he certainly doesn't commit himself to either view in the book, but if he has evidence that Jesus was buried elsewhere (i.e., Galilee), then why not raise it? (I know it would call into question the Talpiot theory, but I thought Simcha wanted scholars to discuss this).
5. Finally, one more obscure reference in Tabor's book puzzles me. In discussing the possibility that Jesus was buried south of Jerusalem (in the Talpiot region?), Tabor suggests perhaps Mary and Martha may have made a tomb available for Jesus (p. 235-36). Tabor discusses the amount of 1st century tombs in the region of the Mount of Olives including the Flevit sanctuary which has many biblical names including Mary, Martha, Lazarus, etc. Tabor then writes,
"The names are common but this particular grouping, near the village where mary and Martha lived, with their brother Lazarus, and perhaps near the place where Jesus was crucified, seems significant. Mary and Martha are together in a single ossuary, possibly indicating they are sisters."
Now, it is not clear what Tabor means by "this particular grouping." Does he mean the Talpiot grouping? Is his reference to Mary and Marth being in the same ossuary a reference to the "Mariamnou Mara" ossuary which Simcha claims is the ossuary of Mary Magdalene? One would think from watching the special that Tabor agrees with Simcha, but if this reference in his book suggests it is two people in the ossuary (Mary and Martha) and thus "Mara" meaning "Martha" not "Master," why is Tabor silent about this in the documentary?
Maybe Tabor is just completely convinced of all Simcha's conclusions.
Would love to hear your thoughts, Ben (or any one else who cares to weigh in).
Mark (Matthewson):
Tabor seems committed to the case that best supports (at the moment) his apriori conviction that Jesus bones are in some tomb somewhere in Israel (see http://www.bibleprobe.com/jamesossuary.htm). As he wrote in his Jesus Dynasty blog today, "The Talpiot tomb, is, after all, by definition, “a Jesus family tomb.” The question is, which Jesus? And Jesus of Nazareth did die, and was buried, and his flesh did decompose and his bones were left." He assumes that the resurrection did not happen and is setting out to prove it, and he doesn't really seem to care which tomb it takes to do so.
It is ironic that he spends a lot of space at his blog whining about the defensive (apologetic) posture of Christian scholars as opposed to the spirit of honest inquiry he has supposedly adopted. I would suggest that we would not be so "defensive" on the issues if he were'n't so offensive. For a guy that comes off so calm and all-knowing, he sure is clueless (or pretends to be) as to what is at stake for the vast majority of evangelical Christians, scholars included, and how offensive his supposedly scholarly quest is to us. I find a lot of what he writes somewhat more than somewhat disingenous.
And I'm still wondering where he gets his measurement data for the James ossuary.
Benjamin Lewis
Mark M.
It seems to me that someone needs to ask not only what Tabor believes but what are his motives? There is no question that Tabor is not an orthodox Christian, ie bodily resurrection is not important to him. He stated that clearly last night. So, why is he interested at all in the subject? I can think of three very obvious reasons.
1)Fame. He may wish to make a name for himself or be known as a great discoverer of some earth shattering truth. I doubt that the particular facts are all that important to him as long as they are significantly breathtaking. Also, he is expected, due to his position at a university, to be published and this kind of drivel is easy to get published.
2) Money. This kind of stuff sells a lot of books! This will be a gravy train for everyone who is attached to it. Need I say more?
3) Agenda. Our culture today has given great attention and praise to those who wish to discredit or demean Christianity. Tabor obviously leans way left. The guy has a PH D in Religion. He knows full well the impact of his statements. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some underlying desire to bring Christianity down.
We have payed very close attention to the particular details and assertions in this documentary but nobody has asked what the motivating forces are behind the desire to make such statements. Is it a coincidence that Simcha J. is a Jew? Why would a Jew want to find the bones of Jesus....Hmmmmm.
I wonder if we are not giving too much credibility to these people by exerting so much energy refuting them. Would we do the same if Charles Manson or Anton Lavey made the same claims? Of course not! Why? Because they are not credible. From everything that I have seen so far, I do not believe that these people are any more credible. Maybe we need to stop beating around the bush!
On the one hand, it can be the mark of a good honest scholar that he is able to change his mind in the face of compelling evidence. But this does not seem to be the case with Tabor and Simcha. After all, Tabor is the scholar here, not Simcha, and one wouldn't expect the influence to go primarily in the direction of Simcha to Tabor. But it is troubling to me at least that Tabor so readily and quickly abandons one theory for another on so many points. I do not understand that, unless as you say, the archetypal theory has to be supported at all costs--- namely that Jesus' and his dynasty's tomb (and the bones) must be out there somewhere.
One thing that I found very remarkable on the debate show is Tabor's contention that Paul refers to a non-material or 'spiritual' body in 1 Cor. 15. This however is false. A Greek adjective with an -ikon ending like 'pnuematikon' or 'psuchikon; does not describe the material out of which the body is mande. 'pneumatikon soma' no more means 'spiritual body' (which a Pharisee would see as an oxymoron anyway) than 'psuchikon soma' means a body made out of soul. On the contrary the former means a body empowered by the Holy Spirit and the latter means a body empowered by the natural life breath God gave to humans. The issue is the engine or power that drives and enlivens the body, not the material stuff of which the body is made.
BW3
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My intuition about Professor Tabor is just that he thinks that Simcha et al. might be on to something. I have not seen him actually endorse the theory, and I do not expect him to. Thus, I do not see any inconsistency between this and his book. I think his feeling is: this could be true.
This is based upon my read of his blog, which has largely focused upon (a) the plausibility of the theory and (b) those who, in his mind, refuse to admit the plausibility.
Spiritually, I am in agreement with Tabor. It could be true. However, I think most people are on board there. The "scientific ethos" has filtered its way pretty deep into the American psyche, despite whatever he might think of the close-mindedness of American "evangelicals." I think most of us, when we first saw the headline or whatever, wondered, "I wonder what it is that they have?"
My problem with his position, as it has been expounded on his blog this week, is threefold:
(i) He seems to take those, like Dr. Witherington, who argue that this is highly unlikely as actually arguing that it is impossible. Thus, his response -- why won't you admit the possibility? -- is a non-sequitur. We are not discussing possibilities; of course it is possible that the existing historical record contains systematic and grievous errors (e.g. missing a "Judah son of Jesus") that therefore make this Jesus of Nazareth's tomb. We are just arguing that it is exceedingly, amazingly unlikely. There is a difference, an important difference. One rejects a hypothesis because it is not likely true, not because it is definitely false. Those who have rejected Jacobovici's hypothesis have done so for the former reason -- and Tabor cannot criticize us for the latter reason.
(ii) He has taken people who were skeptical from moment one, who criticized the conclusion from moment one, as being people who would never have accept the conclusion, who were hopelessly biased. This is specious -- above all because, to be honest, the documentarians pretty much showed their whole hand on Monday, and then definitely on Tuesday. I knew their statistic argument was bunko the moment they explained it last Sunday; I just happen to know enough about statistics to make that judgment. Tabor's attitude was, "Wait until the evidence comes out!" But the evidence basically has been out for a week. Those of us who did not wait were still evaluating everything there was to evaluate.
Of course, as of now -- absolutely everything -- has been made plain. They have made available everything they were going to make available. Thus, it is now entirely inappropriate to claim that those who reject the conclusion are those who would never accept it. I think that is what he has done as of today on his blog. This sets up: those who agree are open-minded, those who don't are close-minded.
(iii) He does not seem to appreciate just how provocative and unseemly this whole thing has been. From the Monday press conference to last night. I do not mean the thesis itself. I mean the way it was presented. That was provocative and unseemly. The intention was obviously to provoke -- as a way to maximize ratings, etc. Now, this might not have been Jacobovici, Cameron, Pellegrino or his intentions. But nevertheless -- somebody involved in the presentation of this chose to present it in this way to provoke people, namely the 75% or so of America that thinks Jesus rose from the dead. (Personal note -- I think that the way in which this was promoted was profoundly unethical. You do not toy with the great hope of 2.1 billion to get a 0.7 on Discovery and to move 50,000 units in the first week). And, unsurprisingly, people were provoked. And their response to this provocation has offended Tabor. I would be sympathetic to the offense he has taken were it not for the fact that one of his associates -- be it Jacobovici, Cameron, their PR guy, whoever -- designed the provocation as a way to maximize ratings/sales. He should find the guy who OK'd the press conference and all the rest and blame THAT guy for the criticism he has received.
It was his post on his blog today that really aggravated me, and induced me to offer up a more public response, which can be found here.
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I'll add a fourth critique
(iv) Tabor has improperly conflated a rush to judgment with a rush to evaluation.
A rush to judgment is when you draw a false conclusion before all of the facts come in.
A rush to evaluation is when you feel a need to draw a correct conclusion as quickly as possible.
The latter is what Christians worldwide did. Why would they do that? It is because Jacobovici et al. were questioning a major psychological pillar in their lives. You do not wait around a week when such a pillar is questioned. You answer as quickly as you possibly can.
There are, I am sure, people who did the latter and the former. They rushed to evaluate and tossed together a poor response simply so that they could sleep at night. But there are others -- most notably Dr. Witherington -- who very clearly did not. He rushed to evaluate, but he did not rush to judgment. In other words -- he offered a valid response quickly.
Dr. Tabor has conflated these two -- and thus dimissed Dr. Witherington's valid critique as being a "rush to judgment." This is not the case.
The question: was it possible to rush to evaluate without rushing to judgment? Yes! As it turns out, it was. The documentarians, as I said, laid their whole hand bare last Monday. We knew the basic planks of their argument then, and we knew every aspect of it on Tuesday when their book "dropped."
This is another way in which I have found Tabor frustrating this week. There is a rhetorical strategy that is nested here, intentional or unintentional. Christians were going to respond to this quickly. They were not going to sit around and wait for a week while Jacobovici et al. went on Larry King Live to tell the world that the faith is dead. By conflating the rush to judgment with the rush to evaluation, you make a rhetorical end-around your opponents during your PR week. Anybody who would take to the airwaves to disagree in week 1 would be somebody who rushed to evaluate. By calling them somebody who rushed to judgment, you delegitimize them.
This is especially specious in light of the fact that, again, they pretty much showed their hand early last week. I stayed up late last Monday night working through their statistics, for crying out loud! Was my conclusion a rush to judgment? No! It was a rush to evaluate -- as in, I was not going to sleep until I worked out what they did and whether it was valid. Why? Yes -- I admit it. The resurrection is a cornerstone of my life. Jacobovici et al. on Monday questioned a cornerstone of my life, and I was not going to wait around and resolve the questions they raise slowly. I intended to resolve them correctly, but also quickly: hence, I have been on about 10 or so hours of sleep this whole week (and have, as a consequence, developed a major head cold. Thanks, Simcha!)
There is a major difference between rushing to evaluate and rushing to judge. Tabor does not seem to recognize it.
Hi James Morrison,
You are primarily right that the “comments were shaped by the questions asked by Koppel.” Nevertheless, as I recall the theologians had opportunities to respond to open questions about what they thought of the show and they didn’t seem well prepared. As any good politician or debater knows you can also leap from steering questions to what you think really needs to be said.
I agree with Blake that “Father O’Connel seemed like he didn’t know why he was there.” Expressing articles of faith in this arena simply gets the opposition to yawn or just smile condescendingly. Everyone really knows that Christianity almost universally believes that Jesus resurrected bodily from the grave. A mere repetition of one’s confession of faith does little to address the flaws of the show. It’s the objective evidence providing foundations for our faith that is needed and this we have through the earliest accounts of what happened. As Dr. Witherington staes, “Historians must take seriously the earliest, most credible, and eyewitness evidence.” This falls within the legitimate purview of the theologian who studies these texts. It is this that the theologians should have pitted against the wild speculations and fantasies of the show. This is then reinforced by providing the proper archeological and scientific evidence that the other scholars contribute.
I’m very curious to know if the theologians had timely opportunity to preview the show. We know that Jacobovici has been working out this story for years.
I believe that when you have an opportunity to comment on national TV, being seen through much of the world with Ted Koppel on such an important subject, you should be fully prepared and perhaps even prep with a team of experts to determine what you wish to address.
We are at least fortunate that this blog has provided a solid forum through which to bring out the facts. Hopefully the general media concerned with this issue is being directed to this site.
Dear Dr. Witherington, this is Charlie Kiser, son of two of the students in your class, and i'm very interested to hear what u have to say on this!!! i'll tell you this though, it was a great piece of fiction
Ben,
Hello again. I have come to a similar conclusion with one additional detail. If the James ossuary isn't a fake, then the 1976 photo of it must also be real. If that's the case, then it couldn't be in the 1980 Talpiot tomb.
I've emailed my request to Dr. Tabor to retract this as part of his hypothesis. See my post on www.donsausa.com for details on the photo.
Dr. Witherington,
I've added something to my earlier observation regarding the temple and the chevron/circle since you visited my site. Please take a look at your convenience.
http://confirmedword.blogspot.com/
Thanks,
Dr. K
Associate Professor of OT & Hebrew
MABTS
Not only is Jesus never called son of Joseph, at the beginning of Mk. 6 he is specifically called son of Mary when he went to his hometown synagogue and began to teach there, where, “many who heard him were astounded. They said, “… Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary … ?”
A question for those of you who watched the program. In the segment with a 'dramatization' of Jesus' alledged son, I thought I heard the narrator say something before going to a commercial. It sounded like:
'the boy's identity must be kept secret to protect the dynasty to come'
I believe this is the gist of it. Did I hear it correctly? If so, what would logically make a person say,
"I'm dying on a cross as a fraud. My family knows I'm a fraud. I'm poor. The locals hate me. Oh, yeah, hey Mary, protect the boy, okay? It's for the future dynasty. Got that? Yes, I said for the future dynasty."
I must confess that the program had me concerned until hearing talk of a 'dynasty'. Then, the realization set in...maybe the rest of the 'evidence' isn't as strong as they present it to be.
The show's whole premise is a conspiracy theory.
The entire thesis of the Talpiot tomb containing the ossuaries of Jesus, his claimed wife Mary Magdalene and their claimed son, Judah, is at bottom a conspiracy theory.
The proposal completely depends on Jesus having been an anti-Roman agitator or wannabe-revolutionary leader. But where is the historical evidence of that? In my M.Div. program at Vanderbilt ('99)I read or scanned through a large number of books that serious scholars had written, claiming that Jesus was a wisdom teacher, a sage, an apocalyptic prophet, a Jewish reformer, and so on. But I don't remember even one claim that he was attempting to agitate against Rome and claim the ancient throne of David for himself.
Yet that is exactly what the show says Jesus was trying to do.
No matter what the DNA tests show, no matter what the names on the ossuaries, if the claim that Jesus was an anti-Roman agitator cannot be sustained - and I don't see how it can - then the entire edifice of the "family tomb" proposal falls into ruins, for that is the only reason the show gives for claiming a secret marriage of Jesus and Mary M. and the secrecy of the existence of their son, Judah.
Dr. Witherington, Jay and others:
Thank you for your excellent contributions toward bringing the truth of this topic to light.
You have helped equip me to live out the counsel given in 1Peter 3:15 -- "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect...."
Thanks again. God bless.
I don't know if this problem has been addressed yet. We are asked to believe that we have the tomb and bone box of Mary Magdalene who is given the title "Mary the Master." All indications from the early Church and even the gnostic literature is that Mary's prominence was based on the fact that Jesus was the Christ. So why is the alleged Mary Magdalene given a title and the alleged Christ is not? This is, it seems to me, a rather important point, yet I have not seen it addressed or even mentioned by either critics or supporters. What is your take on this issue, doctor?
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I thought the same thing, too, dimbulb!
Generally, comparing the "Jesus son of Joseph" ossuary to the rest of the ossuaries -- one cannot help but think: did the family even like Jesus? An unadorned ossuary with only the sloppiest of inscriptions? That makes no sense.
The general problem they have is that, outside the names, none of this fits any reasonable inference from the historical record, does it not? Does any of it fit any inference made from the historical record, reasonable or unreasonable?
This creates an ironic setup, I think. You must admit that the record contains grievous and sysetmatic errors to accept this hypothesis. However -- in so doing, you throw into extreme suspicion the very data that supplies us with the names that create the match! Simply stated: the second evangelist missed a son and a wife. How do we trust him on Jos'e?
And, as you say, why would Mary, who was a messenger of Jesus, be called "master" in the tomb? Why would she have a greater title than Jesus?
Go to www.choosejesusrightnow.com & click on BUMPER STICKERS
To Brian:
A more apt analogy:
Imagine you knew of:
David son of Michael & Mary
No wife
No children
Siblings named Michael, James, and John
From Buffalo
And you found a tomb of:
David son of Michael & Mary
Wife named Jennifer
Son named Christopher
Siblings named Michael and Robert
In New York City
Would you conclude that they were the same David?
In fact, the statistics show that if there were 100,000 Jewish men in first century Palestine, about 67 of them were "Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary." Jesus was only 1 of these 67. In other words, it's far more likely that the Talpiot tomb is that of a different Jesus.
As many others have pointed out, the statistical evidence presented in "The Lost Tomb" is not compelling.
BW WROTE:
"I do not understand that, unless as you say, the archetypal theory has to be supported at all costs--- namely that Jesus' and his dynasty's tomb (and the bones) must be out there somewhere."
Here are my suspicions:
In much the same way that we are bound by our faith system to take an apologetic stand in the discussion, Tabor is bound by his faith system to debunk the resurrection: He is constrained by what Francis Schaffer used to call "an implicit faith (presupposition) in the the uniformity of natural causes in a closed system." He rejects the historical arguments (Apostollic and Gospel testimony) for the resurrection because he doesn't believe resurrection is possible. And he doesn't believe the resurrection is possible because he doesn't believe that miracles are possible. Miracles in general and resurrections specifically suggest the system isn't closed.
This "implicit faith" in a closed system is not a reasoned position. As C.S. Lewis rightly points out (Miracles: A Preliminary Study), any argument against the possibility of events like the resurrection is circular. But no amount of historical, eyewitnesse testimony to the resurrection will not be persuasive to those who have decided apriori that resurrection is not possible. Hence, Tabor's goofy rewriting of the history in his Jesus Dynasty. Not unlike Hugh Schonfield's Passover Plot. Hence his blind commitment to the dogma that Jesus' bones must be out there somewhere.
And of course he thinks that HE is the enlightened one, the voice of reason in the discussion. But he is just as bound by his own faith system as we are. He's just less aware of it.
Or so his writings seem to indicate. If I'm wrong, my case isn't any more speculative than the stuff he comes up with.
Benjamin Lewis
DIMBULB WROTE:
"All indications from the early Church and even the gnostic literature is that Mary's prominence was based on the fact that Jesus was the Christ."
I was struck by the images in the film of the Apostle Mary teaching the crowds in her first missionary journey. But I couldn't help but wonder what she was teaching them. Well-digging? Hygiene? Women's Studies? The only apostollic kerygma on record was their witness to the crucifixion and resurrection. Repentence and forgiveness of sins. That sort of thing. But of course, the Apostle Lord Mary knew better. So what was teaching the heathen masses? The audio in the dramatiization wasn't good enough for me to make it out.
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Actually, Philip, I think you might be being too charitable to the documentarians in your analogy!
We know of:
Michael, Son of Linda, Stepson of James.
Sibling of Thomas, Aaron, Jim, Henry and Denise.
No children.
Resident of New York City.
We find:
Michael, son of James.
Related to Linda, Lyn, Jim, Robert
Father of Aaron.
Resident of Philadelphia.
Of the 13 names between the two men, there are no more than 3 matches and no less than 1 match. That is a success rate of no more than 23.07%.
What is more, 2 of the 3 matches -- "James" and "Jim" -- are closely related to one another. So, they only match on 2 unique names, or 15.38%.
SteveJ asked about what could falsify faith. It's a good question but is hard to answer.
It's probably easier to answer the question, "What could make this set of inscriptions plausible from a statistical point of view?"
I would say that the evidence would be FAR more compelling from a statistical point of view if the known relationships within the Jesus family were a better match with the relationships spelled out on the ossuaries.
For example, if the James ossuary could have been proven to belong to the tomb, that would have been a major triumph for Simcha, et. al. Then you would have three men in a particular relationship, Jesus, James, and Joseph. It would have increased the probability estimate that this is the true family of Jesus by a factor of 50. That would still not be enough, but it would be quite a boon to the hypothesis.
Another thing that would have helped the case enormously is if there had been no "Judah son of Jesus" ossuary. That doesn't fit the historical data, so it reduces the probability of Simcha's hypothesis by a large factor. (You have to make a judgment of the probability of a heretofore unknown son existing, despite the roaring silence of the texts. Then you essentially have to reduce your probability estimate of Simcha's hypothesis by that factor.)
Simcha's case would have been massively stronger from a statistical point of view if there had been four ossuaries reading as follows:
1) Jesus son of Mary
2) James son of Joseph brother of Jesus
3) Judah son of Joseph
4) Yose son of Joseph
Then, even without the two Mary ossuaries, you'd have a naive statistical estimate that would say "The odds are 16 to 1 that this is the tomb of the family of Jesus." I call this the "naive estimate" because there is an extra factor that would play here: The "Jesus s