Wednesday, March 15, 2006

Misanalyzing Text Criticism--Bart Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus'

Bart Ehrman is both an interesting person and an engaging lecturer. He speaks well, he writes well, he obviously has a gift for what he does. I like Bart though I find his spiritual pilgimage troubling, and as an alumnus of UNC I am sad to see him as the successor to Bernard Boyd at Carolina. Boyd had such a positive spiritual impact on many persons including myself while at Carolina. In fact I have been told some 5,000 persons went into some kind of ministry as a result of Boyd's decades of teaching the Bible at Carolina.

I am however glad Bart is honest about his pilgrimage. If only he could be equally honest and admit that in his scholarship he is trying now to deconstruct orthodox Christianity which he once embraced, rather than do 'value-neutral' text criticism. In my own view, he has attempted this deconstruction on the basis of very flimsy evidence-- textual variants which do not prove what he wants them to prove.

His most recent book, "Misquoting Jesus" has now made it to the NY Times bestseller list. It is apparently receiving a wide audience, although you can never tell whether those who buy the books actually read all the way through them. And with this book that might be just as well. The first four chapters provide a laypersons guide to textual criticism, and while one could quibble with this or that, basically Ehrman has provided us with a clear statement of the principles applied in that discipline. This is material I could happily assign to seminary students wanting to understand the basics of text criticism. I don't have a lot of qualms or quibbles about much of what he says there. However, like reading the Da Vinci Code, in the middle of this book it takes a left turn and what we have is a simplified version of what was present in Ehrman's earlier scholarly monograph-- "The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture" and along the way we have some personal testimony on why he has become an agnostic.

Dan Wallace, whom many of you will know if you know the NET Bible or www.bible.org. has now reviewed Ehrman's book which he has graciously agreed to allow me to reprint here. What follows after that are some of my own comments as well. Especial thanks to the folks at Christusnexus.org for allowing me to reprint Dan's review here, particularly Ed Komoszewski.

---------------
Review of
Bart D. Ehrman, Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (San Francisco: HarperSanFrancisco, 2005)
by
Daniel B. Wallace,
Executive Director,
Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts (csntm.org)

Bart Ehrman is one of North America’s leading textual critics today. As a teacher and writer, he is logical, witty, provocative, and sometimes given to overstatement as well as arguments that are not sufficiently nuanced.

His most recent book, Misquoting Jesus, for the most part is simply New Testament textual criticism 101. There are seven chapters with an introduction and conclusion. Most of the book (chs. 1—4) is simply a lay introduction to the field. According to Ehrman, this is the first book written on NT textual criticism (a discipline that has been around for nearly 300 years) for a lay audience.

The book’s very title is a bit too provocative and misleading though: Almost none of the variants that Ehrman discusses involve sayings by Jesus! The book simply doesn’t deliver what the title promises.

But it sells well: since its publication on November 1, 2005, it has been near the top of Amazon’s list of titles. And since Ehrman appeared on two of NPR’s programs (the Diane Rehm Show and “Fresh Air” with Terry Gross)—both within the space of one week—it has been in the top fifty sellers at Amazon.

For this brief review, just a few comments are in order.
There is nothing earth-shaking in the first four chapters of the book. Rather, it is in the introduction that we see Ehrman’s motive, and the last three chapters reveal his agenda. In these places he is especially provocative and given to overstatement and non sequitur.

In the introduction, Ehrman speaks of his evangelical background (Moody Bible Institute, Wheaton College), followed by his M.Div. and Ph.D. at Princeton Seminary. It was here that Ehrman began to reject some of his evangelical upbringing, especially as he wrestled with the details of the text of the New Testament.
The heart of the book is chapters 5, 6, and 7. Here Ehrman especially discusses the results of the findings in his major work, Orthodox Corruption of Scripture (Oxford, 1993). His concluding chapter closes in on the point that he is driving at in these chapters: “It would be wrong… to say—as people sometimes do—that the changes in our text have no real bearing on what the texts mean or on the theological conclusions that one draws from them. We have seen, in fact, that just the opposite is the case.”

Some of the chief examples of theological differences among the variants that Ehrman discusses are (1) a passage in which Jesus is said to be angry (Mark 1:41), (2) a text in which “even the Son of God himself does not know when the end will come” (Matt 24:36), and (3) an explicit statement about the Trinity (1 John 5:7-8).
Concerning the first text, a few ancient manuscripts speak of Jesus as being angry in Mark 1:41 while most others speak of him as having compassion. But in Mark 3:5 Jesus is said to be angry—wording that is indisputably in the original text of Mark. So it is hardly a revolutionary conclusion to see Jesus as angry elsewhere in this Gospel.

Regarding Matt 24:36, although many witnesses record Jesus as speaking of his own prophetic ignorance (“But as for that day and hour no one knows it—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son—except the Father alone”), many others lack the words “nor the Son.” Whether “nor the Son” is authentic or not is disputed, but what is not disputed is the wording in the parallel in Mark 13:32—“But as for that day or hour no one knows it—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son—except the Father.” Thus, there can be no doubt that Jesus spoke of his own prophetic ignorance in the Olivet Discourse. Consequently, what doctrinal issues are really at stake here? One simply cannot maintain that the wording in Matt 24:36 changes one’s basic theological convictions about Jesus since the same sentiment is found in Mark.
In other words, the idea that the variants in the NT manuscripts alter the theology of the NT is overstated at best. Unfortunately, as careful a scholar as Ehrman is, his treatment of major theological changes in the text of the NT tends to fall under one of two criticisms: Either his textual decisions are wrong, or his interpretation is wrong.

These criticisms were made of his earlier work, Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, which Misquoting Jesus has drawn from extensively. Yet, the conclusions that he put forth there are still stated here without recognition of some of the severe criticisms of his work the first go-around. For a book geared toward a lay audience, one would think that he would want to have his discussion nuanced a bit more, especially with all the theological weight that he says is on the line. One almost gets the impression that he is encouraging the Chicken Littles in the Christian community to panic at data that they are simply not prepared to wrestle with. Time and time again in the book, highly charged statements are put forth that the untrained person simply cannot sift through. And that approach resembles more an alarmist mentality than what a mature, master teacher is able to offer. Regarding the evidence, suffice it to say that significant textual variants that alter core doctrines of the NT have not yet been produced.

Finally, regarding 1 John 5:7-8, virtually no modern translation of the Bible includes the “Trinitarian formula,” since scholars for centuries have recognized it as added later. Only a few very late manuscripts have the verses. One wonders why this passage is even discussed in Ehrman’s book. The only reason seems to be to fuel doubts. The passage made its way into our Bibles through political pressure, appearing for the first time in 1522, even though scholars then and now knew that it is not authentic. The early church did not know of this text, yet the Council of Chalcedon in AD 451 affirmed explicitly the Trinity! How could they do this without the benefit of a text that didn’t get into the Greek NT for another millennium? Chalcedon’s statement was not written in a vacuum: the early church put into a theological formulation what they saw in the NT.

A distinction needs to be made here: just because a particular verse does not affirm a cherished doctrine does not mean that that doctrine cannot be found in the NT. In this case, anyone with an understanding of the healthy patristic debates over the Godhead knows that the early church arrived at their understanding from an examination of the data in the NT. The Trinitarian formula only summarized what they found; it did not inform their declarations.

In sum, Ehrman’s latest book does not disappoint on the provocative scale. But it comes up short on genuine substance about his primary contention. Scholars bear a sacred duty not to alarm lay readers on issues that they have little understanding of. Unfortunately, the average layperson will leave this book with far greater doubts about the wording and teachings of the NT than any textual critic would ever entertain. A good teacher doesn’t hold back on telling his students what’s what, but he also knows how to package the material so they don’t let emotion get in the way of reason. A good teacher does not create Chicken Littles.
---------------------------


I am in basic agreement with what Wallace says in his critique of Ehrman, which is why I have reprinted here. It is simply not the case that any significant theological truth is at issue with the textual variants that Ehrman wants to make much of.

As I remember Bruce Metzger saying once (who trained both Bart and myself in these matters) over 90% of the NT is rather well established in regard to its original text, and none of the remaining 10% provides us with data that could lead to any shocking revisions of the Christian credo or doctrine. It is at the very least disingenuous to suggest it does, if not deliberately provocative to say otherwise.

Take for example the arguments that Ehrman makes in Chapters 5ff. in this book. Does the absence of the Trinitarian formula in 1 John 5 somehow prove that the NT has no notion of three person in one God? Absolutely not. There are a whole variety of texts where such an idea is found (see e.g. Mt. 28). Furthermore, its not so much whether we have a 'formula' here and there, but whether the notion of the divinity of Christ and the divinity of the Spirit are affirmed in various places in the NT along with the divinity of the Father. And in fact they are--- repeatedly so. Even our chronologically earliest NT documents, Paul's letters are perfectly clear on this point.

Take another example. Ehrman points to the fact that in Matthew's version of the ignorance saying (cf. Mk. 13.32 to Mt. 24.36) as some sort of proof that Jesus should not seen as divine, at least in Matthew's Gospel. We can debate the textual variants, but even if we include 'not even the Son' here which is certainly present in Mk. 13.32 it in no way proves that Matthew presents a merely human Jesus. The Emmanuel (God with us Christology) which we find at the beginning and end of this Gospel rules that notion out all together, as do various other texts in Matthew where Jesus presents himself as the Wisdom of God come in the flesh (see my forthcoming Matthew commentary).

Furthermore, Ehrman does not reckon with the profound theology of divine condescension reflected in a hymn like Phil. 2.5-11 which suggests that the pre-existent Son of God deliberately put on hold the 'omnis' so he could be fully human while remaining divine. By this I mean that he accepted our normal limitations of time, space, knowledge and power to be fully human. Notice that as Hebrews says however he was not like us in regard to sin. Sin, is not an inherent quality that God originally programmed into humanity. Ehrman writes as though he has never seriously dealt with the concept of divine self-limitation and Incarnation-- an idea we find in the NT from its earliest Pauline sources to its latest Johannine ones.

Furthermore, it is simply false to say that Jesus is presented as non-divine in the Synoptics in general, or even in their earliest source material (Q?, M?, L?), whereas in John, Jesus is presented as divine. The Fourth Gospel certainly more clearly and loudly presents the divine side of Jesus, but this is by no means lacking in the other Gospels, and there are no nefarious textual variants out there lurking that suggest there was ever a Gospel or a Gospel source that merely presented Jesus as man or a teacher or a messianic prophet.

Consider for example the fact that Jesus's two most frequently used phrases are Son of Man (in reference to himself) and Kingdom of God (which he is bringing in). Where in the OT do we find these two notions, indeed where do we find them together? In Dan. 7.13-14 where the Son of Man figure is promised to reign forever in a kingdom on earth. One has to ask-- what sort of person could personally reign forever in a kingdom? Who would God give this privilege to? The answer is to a forever person who was also a 'son of man'.

I have argued at length that Jesus exegeted himself and his mission out of Dan. 7.13-14 in my book 'The Christology of Jesus'. He also saw himself as God's Wisdom come in the flesh. This means that the historical Jesus saw himself as both human and indeed more than human--- as divine. The church then was not wrong in any sense to view him in this fashion. The tired old notion that the divinity of Jesus was something concocted late in the first century A.D. is historically false. Whether one likes it or not, Jesus is the one who suggested such a notion himself and the church simply amplified and clarified these ideas.

I want to turn around now and say something about one thing Ehrman is right to complain about. Ehrman is right that later pious scribes sometimes over-egged the pudding, to use a British phrase. Sometimes they did revise the text to better highlight Christian doctrine including the notion of the Trinity and other such truths. This is really quite irrelevant because when one stripes away the later accretions one still has a portray of Jesus that involves: 1) the virginal conception; 2) the atoning death of Jesus; 3) the bodily resurrection of Jesus; 4) the raw stuff of Trinitarian thinking, and we could go on. Ehrman's so-called evidence that these are later ideas imposed on the text by scribal corrupters is frankly false-- historically false, text critically false, theologically false.

Take another issue. Ehrman makes much of the fact that originally Mark's Gospel ends at Mk. 16.8, or at least its original ending is lost, and so we do not have an account of Jesus's resurrection appearances in this Gospel. In the first place, it is not at all likely that Mk. 16.8 is the original ending of this Gospel, as has recent been made abundantly clear by Clayton Croy's fine recent monograph on this subject. 'The Greek phrase 'for they were afraid....' is not a proper ending to any such book. It is grammatically awkward and inappropriate as an ending. I have argued as well in my Mark commentary at length that the original ending is lost, and the later material in Mk. 16.9ff. does not represent the original text. On this last point, I think Ehrman would agree.

But let us take the harder tact for a moment. Suppose Mark's Gospel does end at Mk. 16.8. Does this mean we have no early evidence of Jesus rising from the dead? Absolutely not. We have evidence from over a decade earlier in 1 Cor. 15-- Paul provides us with a long list of witnesses of the risen Lord, including himself. He is citing a tradition here and not making this up. This is what the early church believed whether they were disciples of Paul or Peter or John or James. Notice for example the Aramaic prayer at the end of 1 Cor. 16--- marana tha--'Come o' Lord'. Paul here cites a prayer that Aramaic speaking Jewish Christians he knew uttered. It is a prayer prayed to Jesus for him to return. All the earliest disciples of Jesus were monotheistic Jews, and yet here they are praying to Jesus for him to return. You don't pray to deceased rabbis to return.

I am glad we have a book like 'Misquoting Jesus' to tease our minds into active thought, though ironically very little of the book as anything to do with the actual sayings or teachings of Jesus himself. The title like the book is more of a tease, than really providing substantial evidence for 'the orthodox concotion of the Christian faith'. I would simply say to the reader-- caveat emptor. This author has a strong ax to grind, and the fact that he grinds it well in fluid prose makes it all the more beguiling. As my granny used to say-- Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!

112 Comments:

Blogger Layman said...

Thank you, Professor. This is exactly the kind of information we should be getting to the laypersons. I will link to it from my blog.

5:24 PM  
Blogger Jeremy said...

Dr. Witherington,
Thanks so much for your speedy repsonse to my request. Very helpful post and I appreciate it very much, especially with regard to 1 Cor 15 -- that Paul could not have made any of the resurrection material up--material accepted and attested by eyewitnesses. Even if we didn't bring 1 Cor 15 into the discussion (which would be hard to do), the other gospels still provide us with a fuller picture of the resurrection account (even if we did entertain the notion that Mark's gospel indeed ended at 16.8).

I've spent a couple of years digging into text criticism in classes and on my own, but my conclusions have always strengthened my faith rather than debunk it. Thanks again for your response/thoughts toward this sort of increasing skepticism. Blessings,
JM O'Clair

5:42 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

Great post!

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate your blog.

IMO it is vital to expose such books for what they are.

I personally think you were way too lenient on the author though.

AMDG

11:04 PM  
Blogger Hannah Im said...

Good post Dr Witheringon (and Dr. Wallace). I read an article about Bart through a link from Scot McKnight's blog and I found his description of losing his faith a little puzzling to me. I mean, I also went to Moody, did very well in Greek, and then headed to seminary (Dallas) where I was exposed to more textual criticism. But, learning that certain phrases may not be in the original manuscript didn't particularly bother me. I wonder what really got to him. I have a hard time believing that TC alone drove him away from his love for Christ.

12:25 AM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Hi Hannah:

I am in total agreeement with you. I can't have just been the text criticism, there had to be something else going on, as this seems a very insubstantial reason to jump ship. I think possibly it has to do with the desire for absolute certainity about some things.

Blessings,

Ben

4:04 AM  
Blogger Chris Petersen said...

Ehrman instead of founding his faith on the message proclaimed by the primitive church, i.e. that God raised Jesus from the dead and so forth, founded it on a very strong doctrine of biblical inerrancy. Thus, I can very well see why the field of textual criticism might lead to a loss of faith if a belief in strong inerrancy is where one has placed the cornerstone of that faith rather than in the message handed on by the earliest believers.

5:40 AM  
Blogger Leo said...

Ben:

I am currently reading your book, The Problem with Evangelical Theology, and I just wanted to thank you for this information (both in your book and on your blog). Bart Ehrman is an interesting fellow, and I have followed his career since his earlier work on the New Testament and other Christian writings. I have watched his views evolve, and I think you are right. Something has happened that is more than just exposure to learning. His story reminds me a bit that of Dead Sea Scroll scholar, John Marc Allegro. At any rate, thanks for the quality blog and good books. Talk to you again soon!

7:32 AM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Hi petros:
I hear what you are saying, but in fact Ehrman is smart enough to know there is a difference between the truthfulness of the content of scripture and the accuracy of copying it!

Blessings,

Ben

7:43 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

Where does Matthew 28:19 say that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one God?

Does Professor Withertington agree with Ehrman's main thesis - that tghe early manuscripts show that early Christians altered the texts in line with their own private theological agendas?

11:17 AM  
Blogger Apolonio said...

Dr. Witherington,

I have some questions which shows that I am impatient when it comes to waiting for your commentary to come out.

When it comes to the wisdom of God, how would you approach this passage from Sirach 1:

“All wisdom comes from the LORD and with him it remains forever. The sand of the seashore, the drops of rain, the days of eternity: who can number these? Heaven's height, earth's breadth, the depths of the abyss: who can explore these? Before all things else wisdom was created; and prudent understanding, from eternity.” (vs. 1-4)

Here, wisdom is created. It may be true that elsewhere wisdom may be said to be uncreated or God, but it seems to me that there is a tradition where wisdom was created. I have speculated that "wisdom" here can also be the Church, which the early fathers thought to pre-exist the creation of the world. The Logos and the Church are so united that wisdom can be identified with both. This is a theological speculation, I admit, but what do you think of it?

Also, what about this passage in Matthew:

But Jesus cried out again in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.
51
And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. 31 The earth quaked, rocks were split,
52
tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
53
And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

In the Greer-Heard debate, Tom Wright also spoke of the difficulty in this passage. What is your take on it?

3:08 PM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Matthew 28.19 says baptize them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Spirit. One name covering these three persons. All the earliest Christians were Jewish Christians including the author of this Gospel and they were monotheists. This text clearly implies three persons that fall under the NAME of God. No one baptized into some name that was less than God.

I do not agree with Ehrman's main these that the scribes altered the texts in ways that did not comport with the theological ideas that were already present in numerous other NT texts. They are simply trying to make the connections clearer. They are not inventing a single new doctrine or theological idea--- not one. So no, I do not agree with what Bart suggests on this front.

As for the Wisdom speculation, I don't find convincing the argument that the church is alluded to, but yes there were church fathers that wondered about this. I don't find that Matthew text as troubling as Tom Wright. In the first place its theological import is to signal that Jesus' death and resurrection indicates the beginning of the eschtological age, which most early Jews associated with the resurrection of all the righteous. But secondly, since we have plenty of other stories about Jesus raising the dead as the Kingdom was coming in, why should this one be any different? Its just a sign of the eschatological power of God. Doubtless these persons went on to die again as did Lazarus.

Blessings,

Ben

4:18 PM  
Blogger Apolonio said...

Dr. Witherington,

So you don't take "raised" in that passage to be a resurrection of the dead? If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't that be a problem for Wright's thesis?

5:32 PM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Yes, I do take raised to refer to resurrection. Its just that these folks came back to fallen human bodies while Jesus went forward into the eschatological existence of having a resurrection body (see 1 Cor. 15).

Ben

5:51 PM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

I don't really see why the formulation 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost' is a claim that all 3 are gods, and that there is only one God.

It is just a perfectly standard construction , meaning in 'in the name of X, and in the name of Y, and in the name of Z'

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-and-globalization.html

' The same publishers that are demanding total power over the public in the name of the authors and musicians are giving those authors and musicians the shaft all the time.'


Is this a claim that there is only one musician?

Christians often use 'in the name of A,B,C,D... etc' in ways which mean that A,B,C,D etc are not the same people.

Take Mother Theresa's acceptance speech :-

http://almaz.com/nobel/peace/1979a.html

'But I am grateful to receive (the Nobel) in the name of the hungry, the naked, the homeless, of the crippled, of the blind, of the lepers, of all those people who feel unwanted, unloved, uncared-for throughout society, people that have become a burden to the society and are shunned by everyone."'

NAME - singular. There is only one hungry and blind person.

10:00 PM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

Ben writes ' Its just a sign of the eschatological power of God. Doubtless these persons went on to die again as did Lazarus.'

Would any of these people still have been alive by by the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians? Why then did the Corinthians doubt that God had the power to breathe life into dead matter?

10:03 PM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Hi Steven:

Your examples are not relevant. The Greek grammatical construction is clear, and in any case weare not talking about just any name but the sacred name, and the phrase 'the name' as in 'bless the Name' always meant the one God--- in early Judaism.

Blessings,
Ben

2:11 AM  
Blogger NewsCat said...

I think for me, whether one argues that Ehrman's citations don't significantly change the meanings of Gospels or that the Gospel narratatives are more consistant in their stories than Ehrman portrays, what his book clarified for me was something that I've often wondered but never bothered to research. Where did the words in the Bible come from.

Ehrman spelling out that at best we only have copies of letters written 300 years AFTER Jesus walked the earth is sort of the problem I have with document that has a) been written long after the fact, b) undergone multiple revisions.

I do copy editing ON THE COMPUTER and even I can see how revisions quickly twist meanings after two different people edit something for clarity. I can only imagine how imprecise this effect is when multiplied by hundreds of years and thousands of scribes. It's like decribing the effects of a Katrina-size hurricane, only the best accounts you have are 300 years old and have been copied hundred of thousands of times.

I understand that the whole point of "faith" is "faith." Belief is a strong aspect of it. But for me Ehrman's book simply pointed out how human and fragile the Bible really is and I can't "trust" it as a Divine source precisely because it's such a human creation.

4:39 AM  
Blogger Brian said...

newscat,

Can you really draw that comparison...surely not if you are a Christian. The big difference here is that the Bible is "God's Word" to which God says he will preserve.

If you (not you specifically) don't believe that then why even bother with it.

AMDG

8:59 AM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Well newscat, here's a news bulletin.

It is absolutely false that we do not have any documents or parts of documents of the NT from before 430 A.D. This is a huge error. In fact we have papyri that go back to the second century, at a time when there were some around who knew the original second generation disciples of the apostles. For example we have a papyrus that contains John 18 from 125 A.D. We also have a papryus that has Acts 8 from the same century. There are many more from the third century. So, unfortunately it is a lie to say that we have no documents that date before 400 years after the time of Jesus. This is not even close to being correct.

And if you actually study the practices of ancient, not modern scribes, you will discover they are mostly not like copy editors at all. They are very conservative and stick to copying things verbatim as they were taught. This is all the more so when they thought they were copying a sacred text with words from God on it. They mostly labor away letter by letter copying things, unless they find something that can't clearly understand.

Blesssings,

Ben W.

9:01 AM  
Blogger Josh said...

Thanks for the review. Erhman is going to be speaking at my school (UNCG) in a couple of weeks and I was curious as to what his views actually were.

1:30 PM  
Blogger Michael W. Kruse said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

2:08 PM  
Blogger Michael W. Kruse said...

Just curious. The claim is that this is the first book that has been written about text criticism for the lay person. Is that true? Have you written, or can you recommend works that would be reasonably accessible to a lay person?

Thanks for doing this blog!

2:11 PM  
Blogger Ty said...

Dr. Witherington,

Thank you for a convincing and timely review of Dr. Ehrman's new book. I am currently writing a thesis on Epiphanius of Salamis' NT quotations and their role as devices for manipulation in early Byzantine Christianity (if you can't tell by subject matter, I was one of Dr. Osburn's students before he retired).

My current chair suggested looking at Orthadox Corruption, since it appears to take a similar premise. What I've discovered is that Ehrman, while right about the Orthadox impulse to adapt scripture, overlooks a great deal of evidence.

When looking at the patristic evidence, it becomes clear that fathers may alter their quotations of the text, or selectively edit parts of a quotation in their own works to remove conflicting material, on occation they may even choose from available readings to support their points, but the very nature and character of the execution of these activities suggests that they were generally unwilling to intentionally change the wording of the manuscripts in their possession, even in the case of fathers with a reputation for severe dogmatism, like Epiphanius.

2:32 PM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Metzger's work on Text Criticism is the standard. There are good essays in the book by Dockery and Black.

Ben W.

3:06 PM  
Blogger Edward T. Babinski said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:33 PM  
Blogger Edward T. Babinski said...

Hi Ben,
I saw you lecture at Furman University's Daniel Chapel, and read some of your articles in Bible Review over the years. (In one such article I believe you mentioned having met a flat-earth Bible-believing Christian during a road trip down South. *smile*) Since you were discussing Ehrman on your blog, I thought I'd mention that I happen to be another former born again Christian believer who became an agnostic after studying the Bible, as did Bart Ehrman.

Your mention of Bruce Metzger brought to mind some quotations from a book that Bruce helped edit. The historical consensus is that the Gospels were written by unknown persons, plenty of "perhapses" below. That alone should make one wary of attempting to squeeze unquestionable dogmas out of them:

“Not only did Jesus himself write nothing, but the attribution of the gospels to his disciples did not occur until the late first century at the earliest. . .

‘Matthew: Written by an unknown Jewish Christian of the second generation, probably a resident of Antioch in Syria.

‘Mark: [There is] confusion in the traditional identification of the author . . .

‘Luke: Possibly written by a resident of Antioch and an occasional companion of the apostle Paul.

‘John: Composed and edited in stages by unknown followers of the apostle John, probably residents of Ephesus.’

“(cited by Kingsbury, J.D., “Matthew, The Gospel According to,” in Metzger and Coogan, eds., The Oxford Companion to the Bible [Oxford, England: Oxford University Press, 1993], pp. 502-506

To learn more about my reasons for leaving the fold, especially reasons for doubting "the resurrection" stories, I include a list of links below. I also consider the many dubious "prophecies" in the New Testament another good reason to doubt the veracity of the Bible.

Letter On The Resurrection Written to Apologist Dr. Gary Habermas of Liberty University (An Evangelical friend agreed I had raised some "knotty problems," while Habermas asked an Evangelical publisher about possibly publishing a dialogue between us--though the publisher's response was 'No.')

Letter I Received From Producer of Lee Stroble's "Faith Under Fire" And My Response Concerning Historical Criticism of the Bible

Scholars Comment on N.T. Wright's Resurrection Arguments

Additional Reviews of N.T. Wright's Resurrection Book by Scholars

Literary Criticism and Historical Accuracy of the Gospels, Including a Discussion of the Alleged Words Spoken by the Resurrected Jesus That Grew In Number With Each New Gospel, Or That Were Simply Added As in Mark's Three Additional Late Endings

C.S. Lewis’ “Modern Theology and Biblical Criticism”

The "Born Again" Dialogue In the Gospel of John [a point made by Bart Ehrman]

Newsweek Defends Resurrection as History in Newsweek's Easter issue, March 28th, 2005

Agnosticism: Reasons to Leave Christianity

What's Missing From Christian Resurrection Arguments?

What Happened to the Resurrected Saints?Raising doubts not saints.

More About the Resurrected Saints

The Christian Think Tank's Response to Questions Concerning "The Many Resurrected Saints"

The Lowdown on God's Showdown

The Fabulous Prophecies of the Messiah [not by me, though I suggested some books the author employed in his research and for which he thanked me]

The Resurrection Appearances of Jesus [article by Dr. Robert M. Price]

Not One, But Mutiple Views Of The Afterlife in the Bible

The Former Popularity among Christians of The Abominable Fancy, or, A Heaven that only "Snuff Film" Aficionados Could Love

Is the Book of Revelation a Literary Patchwork Quilt? (Including a Discussion of the First Book of Enoch)

Thanks for letting me have my say at your blog, and I invite others to visit this blog, Debunking Christianity, sometime.

Or read Dr. Price's Beyond Born Again (a sort of warm up book for the rest of Price's writings, written while he was still a liberal Christian)

Ed

8:21 PM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

'At this point in the canonical 2 Corinthians, two letter fragments have been inserted: a letter of recommendation for Titus (at 8:1-24) and a letter concerning the collection (at 9:1-15).'

This is on page 150 of Social Science Commentary on the Letters of Paul by Malina and Pilch.


Very well respected Biblical scholars think that early Christians made big interpolations into what was originally written.

2:10 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

ty writes 'When looking at the patristic evidence, it becomes clear that fathers may alter their quotations of the text, or selectively edit parts of a quotation in their own works to remove conflicting material, on occation they may even choose from available readings to support their points, but the very nature and character of the execution of these activities suggests that they were generally unwilling to intentionally change the wording of the manuscripts in their possess...'

How do you alter the quotation of the text without changing the wording of the manuscript?

It goes without saying that Ehrman considers a great deal of patristic quotations in the Orthodox Corruption of Scipture, written when he was a believer , of course.

2:15 AM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Hi Steven and Edward:

A couple of points are worth making. Firstly citations from church fathers are not the same as citations from manuscripts of the NT. Of course the church fathers sometimes cite from memory. One has to distinguish between the copying of the sacred text, which was done more carefully and the free paraphrase by a church father.

Edward first of all I have never been to Fuhrman, so you couldn't have heard my lecture there. Secondly, sadly it sounds like you have sold your birthrite for a mess of pottage, to use a Biblical phrase. I have written commentaries on all four Gospels now, and it is frankly false to say we don't know who wrote, or provided these documents. The majority of commentaries on Mark, and not just conservative ones, say it is written by John Mark, the sometime companion of both Paul and Peter, not by Mr. Anonymous. Luke's Gospel is written by Paul's companion Luke. Neither of these men claim to be eyewitnesses of the life of Jesus, but to be in touch with them (see Lk. 1.1-4), and it is entirely unlikely the church would later make up the idea that two non-apostles who are more minor figures in early christianity, wrote these Gospels. Then there is Matthew, which is a composite document which uses material from the tax collector Matthew, from Mark and from Q. It is named for Matthew because he is the first and apostlic source for the special material in this Gospel. See my commentary which is out in May. As for John it is an eyewitness Gospel, as we are told quite specicifally in Jn. 19 and 21. We can debate which eyewitness it was but clearly it was an eyewitness of the life of Jesus. On this see my volume New Testament History and my volume the New Testament Story.

In regard to 2 Corinthians, we have no textual evidence at all that it was composed of multiple sources. Most Pauline scholars reject this theory now, and certainly there is no textual evidence of this idea at all. The partition theory arose from scholars who are ignorant of Greco-Roman rhetoric and how one structures a deliberative discourse.

Blessings,

Ben

4:22 AM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

P.S. It is not true that Bart Ehrman published the Orthodox Corruption volume while he was still a Christian. This volume did not come out in the mid-80s.

4:23 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

I don't understand the difference between a resurrected body that will not die again and one which will die again.

In 1 Cor. 15, Jesus appeared to lots of people. The word for appeared is 'ophthe' and the same word is used to say Moses appeared at the Transfiguration.

When Moses returned from the grave and 'appeared' , was he a disembodied spirit?

Or did he have a body of flesh and bones?

Did he die again?

Did Moses have a resurrection body when he returned from the grave? But I thought that was unprecendented before Jesus returned from the grave.

Or did the disciples see a disembodied spirit?

If many early fathers were working from memory, many seemed to have the same memory lapse.

(Or could it be that they were all quoting manuscripts which differ from today's versions)

Let us look at one example - Matthew 19.17 /Mark 10.18/Luke 18.19

One very early Church Father is Justin. In his Dialogue 101.2 (probably from the 140s or 150s) , we read "One is good, my Father in the heavens." This very early quotation is not what we read in the Bible today.

Perhaps he was just working from memory, or did he have a manuscript which differed from today's Bibles?

EPHREM: Commentary on the Diatessaron, XV.9, in both the original Syriac and the Armenian (2 manuscripts) reads: "One is good, the/my Father who [is] in the heaven."

Ephrem died in 373, and the Syriac manuscript of the Commentary is fifth century. And Tatian, of course, composed the Diatessaron (the gospel harmony upon which Ephrem was commenting) about 172, on the basis of the gospel texts current then.

And this citation agrees precisely with Justin's, allowing for the differences in Syriac and Greek. We now have two independent sources which show that the 2nd-century manuscripts of this Gospel verse differ from what is read today.


IRENAEUS: Haer. V.7.25 (pre-185): "One is good, the/my Father in the heavens."

Another second-century source confirming the 'wrong' version of Matthew 19:17.

HIPPOLYTUS: Haer. V.7.25 (pre-222): "One is good, the/my Father in the heavens."

Another early Christian Father has the 'wrong' version.

CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: Strom. V.10.63 (composed c. 207):"One is good, the/my Father."

At least Clement drops the 'in the heaven' phrase.

PSEUDO-CLEMENTINE HOMILIES: XVI.3.4 about 260 AD. "For one is good, the/my Father in the heavens."

Another early Church Father disagrees with the 'correct' version of the Bible.

VETUS LATINA MS e (apud Matthew, 5th cent.): "Unus est bonus, pater."

This is the second most ancient manuscript and it also has 'Father'

VETUS LATINA MS d (apud Luke, 5th century.): "Nemo bonus nisi unus Deus pater."

'Father' again.

Perhaps all these cites are citiations of real manuscripts, rather than an amazing coincidence where all these sources had the same memory lapse.

5:53 AM  
Blogger Layman said...

Steve "the UK's leading atheist" Carr,

You are going to wear out your welcome by listing hoards of axe-grinding questions irrelevant to the topic.

I do welcome a continuation of our discussion on the meaning of the term paliggenesia in Philo. You were going to get back to me with some evidence that it should be translated "resurrection" instead of "rebirth"?

Chris

7:10 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

A strange review from Wallace in that it has not one quote from the book being reviewed.

It also does not try to refute any of Ehrman's arguments - it is just a pep talk telling people not to listen.

All we get by the way of refutation is a non sequitor 'Concerning the first text, a few ancient manuscripts speak of Jesus as being angry in Mark 1:41 while most others speak of him as having compassion. But in Mark 3:5 Jesus is said to be angry—wording that is indisputably in the original text of Mark. So it is hardly a revolutionary conclusion to see Jesus as angry elsewhere in this Gospel.'

Let us look at the two passages, putting 'anger' in both, and see if one is as uncontroversial as the other.

Mark 3

4 Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.

Mark 1
40 A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, "If you are willing, you can make me clean."

41 Filled with anger, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man.

In one Jesus, is angry with the leper. In the other he is angry with those who are stubborn.

It is easy to see why some people would be troubled by Jesus being angry in one scene, when they would not be troubled by being angry in the other.

More importantly, Ehrman points out that Matthew and Luke both drop the word 'compassion' when they write the scene. (Wallace naturally ignores this argument of Ehrman's) Why would both drop a description of Jesus beig compassionate.

The obvious answer is that it originally really did read 'anger', and Matthew and Luke changed it for theological reasons.

8:09 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

I forgot to mention that when Wallace discusses Jesus being angry in the Bible, Ehrman does discuss the very verse Wallace uses as a 'refutation' - Mark 3:5.

Wallace , for some strange reason, doesn't let his readers know that Ehrman already knows about and discusses it. Wallace talks as though Mark 3:5 is all new to Ehrman.

Ehrman points out that Luke 6:6-11, when using Mark 3:5, drops the word 'angry'. (Wallace keeps his readers in the dark about this parallel passage.)

Why would Luke not say that Jesus was angry in his account, when Wallace claims that depicting Jesus as angry was hardly revolutionary?


Ehrman has already answered the points Wallace raised.

8:29 AM  
Blogger Steven Carr said...

My apologies. Wallace does have one quote from Ehrman, and a couple more in his footnotes. Mea culpa.

8:32 AM  
Blogger Dan Barker said...

The question about the trinitarian Johannine Comma (I John) -- and other tamperings with the so-called "word of God" -- is not who knew about it, and when did they know it?

The real question -- as Ehrman points out in Misquoting Jesus -- is why would a god who can inspire the writing of scripture not be able to control the copying and translating?

When I was an evangelical minister, I used to quote that trinitarian formula in my ministry, from the KJV. I sincerely thought it was part of the "word of God." I did not know I was quoting an interpolation.

To me, the important thing about Ehrman's book -- and yes, I read it all the way through -- is the documentation of the fact that humans -- Christians, presumably -- have had a tendency to alter the texts. They did it with the writings of Josephus. They did it with the gospels. They invented new gospels. They invented epistles of Paul. Scribes made changes to the copies, either innocently or deliberately. Stories were added -- such as the woman caught in adultery, which I also though was autnehtic for many years, a story which I sometimes used in my sermons.

No I learn that I was deceived. Someone lied to me.

And if I was lied to about THIS, then what else is wrong with the bible?

John Calvin thought the trinitarian comma was part of scripture, and (partially) as a result, he had Servetus burned at the stake for daring to question the authority of scripture (translation: the authority of Calvin).

Millions of good, praying, believing Christians have thought those parts of the bible that we now know to be spurious were actually the very words of God. They were deceived. We were all deceived.

It is fine to say, "Well, sober minds know better now." But why didn't God take care of this himself? Why did he allow deception to be passed off as his word for so long?

If he truly exists, he does not seem to care.

And if he cared so little for the copying and translating, why do we think he cared at all for the actual inspiration.

It was all done by humans.

9:09 AM  
Blogger Gordon Hackman said...

I am no New Testament scholar. However, In terms of understanding the general reliability of the New Testament documents as based on the eyewitness experiences of the earliest followers of Jesus, I found James Dunn's latest title "A New Perspective On Jesus" to be very helpful. I would be curious to know if you have looked at it and what you think of it, Dr. Witherington.

Peace,
Gordon

1:39 PM  
Blogger Daniel B. Wallace said...

Some interesting dialogues going on here about the text of the New Testament. I am grateful to Dr. Witherington for posting my very brief treatment of Ehrman’s Misquoting Jesus. In a review that was limited to 1500 words, not much can be discussed. But even with this limitation, I think it’s unfair to say that all I did was give “just a pep talk telling people not to listen.” Steven Carr’s critique of my review said that “all we get by the way of refutation is a non sequitor [sic]”; he then discusses just my treatment of Mark 1.41. He suggests that I speak as though Mark 3.5 (where Jesus’ anger is mentioned) is a text that Ehrman is unfamiliar with. And he charges me with keeping my readers in the dark about parallel passages.

I respectfully have to disagree with this assessment, though I will keep my comments brief. First, nowhere do I ask people not to read Ehrman’s book. Indeed, I refer to it as a book by “one of North America’s leading textual critics”—a book that is, to a large degree, a lay introduction to the discipline of textual criticism. Of course, I disagree strongly with the direction it is headed, but think that Ehrman has done a decent job in raising the issues that many students of the Bible have struggled with. Second, I did not raise only Mark 1.41 in my critique of Ehrman’s book, but also listed Matthew 24.36 and 1 John 5.7-8. I am presuming that since Mr. Carr believes my only argument to be a non sequitur, he must assume that my treatment of the other two texts falls under the umbrella of how he thinks I handled Mark 1.41. My fundamental point was that in Mark’s Gospel Jesus is already viewed as angry explicitly. An ‘angry’ Jesus in 1.41 does not change that picture of him. More could be said, especially an interaction with Ehrman over his interpretation as to why Jesus was angry here. But in a short review this was not possible. It seems curious to me that Mr. Carr would claim that I was hiding things from my readers in my critique by not speaking about parallel passages, when five times in Ehrman’s book Matthew 24.36 is mentioned, yet not once is the parallel in Mark 13.32 brought up. In 1500 words, only the highlights can be mentioned; in a book of nearly 250 pages there seems to be less excuse for the same.

As for a lengthier treatment of the kinds of text-critical issues Ehrman raises, I should mention that I have recently co-authored a book with Ed Komoszewski and Jim Sawyer entitled Reinventing Jesus: What The Da Vinci Code and Other Novel Speculations Don’t Tell You. The book is coming out in May. Five chapters are dedicated to textual criticism. Information on the book is posted at www.reinventingjesus.info. But for now, a brief review will have to suffice.

5:23 PM  
Blogger Brian said...

Mr. Wallace,

Thanks for the link, I look forward to reading the new book. Maybe I am not looking hard enough but it seems like many of the objections that are being brought up are moot points. They don't change the meaning of the gospel.

Mr. Witherington,

As always thanks for the continued replies and for having a blog.

Here is a question...

Are we really called to give these objectors (modern day pharisees) the amount of time we are giving them?

Does there come a time when perhaps we should not give what is holy to dogs or throw our pearls before swine...when perhaps that effort serves Christ better elsewhere?

I just want to say glory to God for the work Mr. Witherington and Mr. Wallace (to name only two out of many) are doing in defending the faith.

AMDG

8:12 PM  
Blogger Layman said...

Steven,

Funny that you complain about not quoting the work being reviewed when in two out of three of your own Amazon reviews you do not quote the work reviewed. I reviewed a number of my own 56 Amazon reviews and noted that I sometimes do not quote the work explicitly and many times quote it once or twice. This seems like a pointless jab rather than a point of note.

You try attribute the change in Mark 1 to a “theological reason” by claiming that in Mark 1:41 Jesus "is angry with the leper." That does not seem to be the case. Jesus is actually showing great compassion against the traditional rules of cleanliness.

Notably, in an ironic bit of distortion, you cut off the part where Jesus heals the leper. Specifically, the actual text of verse 41 says, "and said to him, "I am willing; be cleansed." V. 42 states, "immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed."

Why leave this out, Steven? Perhaps because it indicates that Jesus' anger was not targeted at the leper himself, but at his condition and perhaps the social rules that marginalized him.

In fact, Jesus' anger does not seem to be targetted at the leper:

"Anger may not be as offensive as it first appears if once recalls that in Judg. 10:16, "[God] became indignant over the misery of Israel (RSV), much as Jesus does here. If 'anger' was the original reading, it must clearly mean that Jesus was indignant at the misery of the leper (so John 11:33-38), for Jesus willingly healed him. As though the leprosy were dispelled by holy wrath, Mark declares, 'immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured.'"

James R. Edwards, The Gospel According to Mark, page 70.

So if this was original, which seems likely to me, it does not portray Jesus as angry with the leper.

But you ask why Matthew and Luke drop the term "compassion" and then say that the original must read "anger" and that "Matthew and Luke changed it for theological reasons." It seems likely to me that Matthew and Luke changed it because they were concerned that people, like you or perhaps with better intentions, would misunderstand or distort Mark. It is perhaps not the best way of explaining Jesus' indignation at the man's condition rather than at the man's request for healing, so they remove the reference and remove the problem. No one has claimed that Luke and Matthew were scribes whose responsibility it was to rerecord Mark verbatim.

So again, we do not seem to have altering here that affects any central tenant of Christianity. Instead, we have Mark and Matthew removing the phrase to avoid confusion.

9:32 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:32 PM  
Blogger Bob said...

Love is sometimes blind, but contempt is always blind.

7:34 PM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Just a word for Dan Gordon: It is of course true that human beings, a lot of different one's have copied the NT manuscripts over the years. Some of them copied them very faithfullly some didn't. I don't suppose you would want to be judged in regard to your current occupation on the basis of its worst practioners. Neither should we judge the early Christian scribes these ways. If you based your faith on some particular English translation of the Bible, you already had your faith misplaced. Translating is an art, not a science in any case. Your faith should have been in the Incarnate Word of God, Jesus, and what God said through and to the original and apostolic witnesses.
As for why God did not preserve ALL the copiests from errors, let us remember that just as human beings can pick up and abuse it today, so they could in antiquity as well. This does not mean there were not some excellent and absolutely faithful copiers. I will give you one example. There is a papyrus in Dublin another piece of which is also found at Yale of the NT. Guess what? It is identical in this passage to Codex Alexandrinus from two centuries later. This is quite astounding, judged by merely human propensities. It shows there were absolutely careful scribes out there for centuries.They should be judged on their best not their worst practioners.

Blessings,

Ben W

5:40 AM  
Blogger Jason said...

Some further insight into this first (recorded) case of healing leprosy, and Jesus' anger involving it.

As in many other cases, a larger reading of story contexts provides a clearer picture of what is going on. In the story so far (putting together the Synoptics and GosJohn), it has been established that Jesus actually prefers to be doing instructing rather than curing; the reason apparently being that the miracles are too distracting, and belief in them (though accepted by Him) tends to lead to a shallower faith. It's one of the more interesting tensions in the story; also one I find implausible to have been invented by pious imaginations trying to maximalize Jesus' power in link to His authority.

So we _already_ have cases where Jesus can be rather brisk toward people seeking healing from Him. Now, shortly after He begins staging missions of evangel out of Capernaum, a leper arrives to be cleaned.

That Jesus has compassion on the man is evident from the healing itself. Yet there is anger in the situation, too, as becomes evident from what happens immediately _after_ the healing--this is a case where GosMark's version of the story is richer than the other Synoptic versions.

Harmonizing Mark's account with Matthew and Luke yields something like this:

Yet [immediately after the healing] growling under His breath, Jesus strictly charges the man: "Look here! You may not say anything of this to anyone! Now go, show yourself to the (local) priest, and bring for your cleansing the approach-offering Moses commands (in the book of Leviticus), as a testimony to them." And then He casts him out. [a fairly strong verb there]

But the man, going out, begins shouting loudly, blazing the news abroad; so that by no means can Jesus enter a city publicly any longer, but must stay out in desolate places. And they came to Him from every direction.



This sort of pattern is not restricted to GosMark in the Synoptics, either. Matthew, for instance, may remove the displeasure of Jesus toward the leper here, but he includes a similar account (found only in GosMatt) of two blind men later in the story; the wording of what happens is very similar to that in GosMark. There are topicality links, I think, to Matthew's use of that story there, in chapter 9:27-31, together with something he says follows immediately afterward historically: the healing of a mute demonic brought to Jesus as the other two are going out--to disobey Him, by the way. Some scholars see this account of the mute demonic to be a stylistic doublet with the deaf-and-mute demonic healed later (in all three Synoptic accounts). I don't believe that Matthew (or the GosMatt redactor) is simply repeating an earlier story there, however. I think what Matthew is saying, is that this is the same exact man being healed twice--a situation which gives occasion for the verbal fencing between Jesus and Pharisee opponents after the second healing. In _that_ case, Jesus would be referring to the demonized man He'd had to heal twice, when He talks about how a person once healed is liable to be in worse shape than before if he doesn't shape up ethically.

In any case, it should have been blatantly apparent that the Matthean author was not simply trying to remove the 'anger' of Jesus for His 'compassion' instead: there are plenty of wrath-of-Jesus incidents in GosMatt elsewhere (including the one just mentioned, similar to GosMark's account of what happened to the leper.)


As far as the leper's story goes, the implication is that Jesus was aware that this fellow would cause problems for Him by publicizing what happened. Why would the healing of a leper be a problem? Because Jesus _touched_ Him: and so, to people He hadn't succeeded in _teaching_ differently yet (there's that link again, too), He would be considered religiously unclean until He gave them evidence Himself (that they would accept) that He could be around them again.

So the story says: from that day onward (I suspect until Jesus goes to Jerusalem for Pentecost 50 days after the Passover account early in GosJohn), Jesus cannot enter openly into a town anymore, but has to stay outside in the wilderness.

(But He does get to have a full compliment of lepers visiting Him...! {g})


I should add that someone doing story analysis work can arrive at conclusions like this, without being orthodox (though I am), without being Christian (though I am), and even without accepting the story elements as historical (though I do). It only requires some careful reading.

Jason Pratt

7:15 AM  
Blogger Jason said...

Opps, sorry--memory blip. The account of the deaf-mute demonic being healed in GosMatt 12, is included in GosLuke 11's parallel but not in the GosMark account of the same scene (chp 3). (This is one of the drawbacks to doing harmonization studies... {g})

7:23 AM  
Blogger Jason said...

argh again... Divinizing pronoun caps to help keep track of the pronoun trail, is a handy tool--until I cap the wrong pronoun.

Touched _him_ (little h) not Him. (The problem isn't that Jesus touched Himself to cure the leper, obviously. {rolling eyes})

7:34 AM  
Blogger yuckabuck said...

Jason,
I appreciate your efforts, but I'm sorry, I cannot agree with your exegsis here. First, the harmonizing from other gospels seems to overshadow what the author of Mark is trying to say himself. Secondly, there seems to be a psychologizing of Jesus here, attributing to Him motives not mentioned in scripture anywhere, that are in fact contrary to some of the biblical evidence.
I do not see it "established that Jesus actually prefers to be doing instructing rather than curing." Mark himself says, "The whole town gathered at the door, and Jesus healed many who had various diseases." (1:32-34, see also 6:12-13 and 6:56).
And let's be done with this idea that "miracles produce a shallower faith." It reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of Jesus' rebuke of people asking for "signs." Again sticking with Mark only, Jesus' rebuke (8:12-13) immediately follows the feeding of the 4000 (and the 5000 in chapter 6). These, as well as the healings and exorcisms, were signs that the Kingdom of God is near (1:15). It's as if the Pharisees said, "Well, I see that you miraculously fed 9000 people on two occasions. But, can you give me a sign that the Kingdom of God is near?" Jesus understandably (angrily?) answers "Doh!" (You can also see this in John 6:26-36, where Jesus feeds 5000, says that the work of God is to believe in His son, and then the people ask Him to show them proof that He is bigger than Moses. Presumably another huge sigh came from Jesus...) People seeing the signs of the Kingdom were to read them right, and then extend their belief to Jesus as the Kingdom-bringer. They were rebuked by Him for not heeding the "signs of the times" (Matthew 16:3). Thomas was rebuked for not extending his faith from the miracles he had seen to the resurrection he had not seen (John 20:26-29).
If Jesus miracles produced a shallow faith, why does John (14:11) record Him as saying "believe on the evidence of the miracles?" Why does Jesus rebuke cities who saw miracles for not putting faith in Him (Matthew 11:20-24)? Would it have been a "shallow" faith that Jesus wanted to avoid if they had? Clearly not.
It's obvious that this passage (Mark 1:41) involves what some call the "Messianic Secret." I am not altogether convinced that the text said "angry," but even if it did, I think people are drawing way too much out of it. Mark's intention would have been way more modest. He portrays Jesus as more active and involved than the other gospels usually do, and either of these options would just serve that purpose. In context, the "anger" would have been most likely at the sickness, and nowhere calls into question Jesus sinlessness.

8:36 AM  
Blogger Gordon Hackman said...

Dr. Witherington,
I noticed that in your response to Dan Barker, you mistakenly refered to him as Dan Gordon. I am guessing that this is because my own comment on your posting immediately followed his and you accidentally compounded our two names. In any case, my comment was about James D. G. Dunn's latest book "A New Perspective on Jesus," and that I had found it helpful in understanding the basic reliability of the New Testament documents. I was wondering if you had had an opportunity to look at it and if you had any thoughts on it.

Thanks,
Gordon Hackman

10:34 AM  
Blogger Ben Witherington said...

Jimmy Dunn is an old friend and fellow Dorhamite. I have looked at that study a long time ago. I think he has some valid insights, though he seems to presume more knowledge of oral tradition than I think we have.

Ben

11:38 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

I lost my faith a while ago, too, but I'm not convinced that the faith itself is false. If Ehrman's work is what has to be done to justify non-belief, it makes belief all the more reasonable.

Thanks for a good article.

11:48 AM  
Blogger David said...

Ben,

Your site provides a great service for the church.

One quibble: Bruce Metzger may have taught you that 90% of the text is well established, but I believe subsequent text critical work has shown this to be a rather conservative number. The number of texts that provide genuine text critical difficulties to me in my studies is far less than 10%.

Best wishes,

David

4:25 PM  
Blogger Tyler Simons said...

Furthermore, its not so much whether we have a 'formula' here and there, but whether the notion of the divinity of Christ and the divinity of the Spirit are affirmed in various places in the NT along with the divinity of the Father. And in fact they are--- repeatedly so. Even our chronologically earliest NT documents, Paul's letters are perfectly clear on this point.

Yes they are. I think that, for whatever reason, Ehrman's agnosticism goes deeper than the arguments he puts forward. (At least those quoted here -- my mom has bought both of his money books for me, and they sit unread.) I'd guess that Ehrman had his faith pretty shaken by the existence of early variations per se.

If, as Metzger is remembered as saying, 10% of the New Testament has shady sources, that discovery must have been tough to deal with for a strict biblicist. (Not being a biblicist, this is, of course, groundless speculation.) So, 90% of the bible was actually written by the people who the Bible says. Does this mean that 10% of the Bible isn't the inspired word of God? (Doesn't Ehrman claim that the prologue to John is a late addition? This is a big deal text, no?)

Now, I'm not gonna try to argue that there are nothing like some proto-trinitarian passages in scripture, but there are all sorts of questions that someone with a skeptical inclination would ask about the legitimacy of Chalcedon's declaration that the Trinitarian is the only or most appropriate understanding of the text. Then there are the questions of the process of canonization and the formulation of early creeds. How can a strict Biblicist admit that God is still inspiring the formulation of the canon and the faith if God's principle revelation is that received by the apostolic fathers?

It's easy to see (at least for this non-biblicist) how this line of thinking can lead to calling into question not the authenticity of Pauline authorship, but the authenticity of the Pauline witness. How, really, do we know that Paul was right about Jesus? He never (physically) met him, and didn't met the other apostles until years after his conversion. How likely is it that Paul was interested in getting the story right while he was persecuting the early Christians?

It seems to me that the central question for orthodox Christians is "Do you believe that Christ really revealed his true nature to Paul?" We have only his word and the fact that he managed to convince enough people to start a religion. (This has been done by a couple of freaks in the last century, *cough*Joseph Smith*cough*L. Ron Hubbard* so history will have a real chance to see if it is possible to base a successful long-term religion on a hoax) Looking to the gospels won't do much good; Margaret Mitchell, my New Testament teacher makes a pretty convincing case that Mark (the earliest gospel and a main source for Matthew and John) is illustrating a Pauline theology, which he could well have already been exposed without a theory of divine inspiration.

I think that Ehrman started asking critical questions of Paul, and the whole thing came crumbling down. Be careful, y'all.

12:14 AM  
Blogger Johnny K. said...

Stumbling across this blog is enlightening -- and frightening.

The tone and tenor of Witherington and his acolytes are self-reinforcing and bereft of critical thinking -- perhaps that's the missing "element" in Ehrman's leaving the fold?

This nit-picking on the source and consistency of scripture seems an exercise in tunnel-vision. The analysis is quite precious -- but the discussion exists in a hermetic world of exegetes. Truly, faith is blind.

Reason, science and self-observation all combined, led me at a young age to dismiss the veracity of the Bible as a work to be taken literally (however one chooses to define that text), let alone as the definitive and infallible word of god (by the way, which god is that?). In the face of multiple divinely inspired texts, the Bible holds no great sway.

Read (and properly placed) in the context of learned science, world history and the fragile and fallible nature of the mere state of being human, it fails miserably as a text to compel the belief in the existence of a God. In its followers hands it has been used to perpetuate and justify intolerance, bigotry, contempt, torture, denial of basic human rights and inequality towards our fellow human beings on this planet. For a text that some would treat as divine, in inspiration and practice it seems a book of horrors in its usage (yes,today -- I'm not just talking Spanish Inquisition here!) to justify oppression, hate, violence and injustice visited upon others.

Look deep inside yourself -- a true state of grace is innate. It exists in the here and now. It is in how we live our lives day to day and how we treat our fellow human beings -- with tolerance, compassion, respect and understanding. It is INCLUSIVE, not EXCLUDING.

If I believed those precepts to be espoused AND PRACTICED by those who describe themselves variously as "Christian", "born-again", "evangelical" or whatever, I would have greater respect for the weight afforded the texts they purport to base their beliefs and value system on. But in practice, it use has devolved into being weilded both as an ax and a shield to justify and perpetuate elitism, prejudice, intolerance and contempt for fellow human beings.

Try to reconcile all THAT. Placed in a larger context outside of this niggling over Mark vs. John, vs. ________ (fill in blank here), is it any surprise Ehrman - an obviously reasonsed and critical thinker, is now a self-professed agnostic???

6:17 AM  
Blogger jledmiston said...

Hi Ben Witherington -
It made me nervous about this book when Jon Stewart drooled over it on his show. I love Jon Stewart but he's consistently cynical/mocking about religious faith, and especially about Christian faith. He loved this book.

Thanks for your words -

PS
Mrs. Boyd served communion at my wedding. I love that Dr. Boyd's legacy continues.
Go Heels - UNC '79

7:37 AM  
Blogger CM said...

I think the key issue here is the effect on some of fundamentalist teachings regarding the nature of the Bible. Given even a passing understanding of how the Bible was written and put together, it is difficult to believe that, in the editorial process of the Bible over millenia, every single addition, subtraction, translation, and revision was divinely inspired and 100% the word of God. That realization does not particularly trouble me, but I could see where it would upset someone who was led to believe that each and every word was originally written in letters of fire by the very hand of God. I can see where a crisis of faith could result, if your faith was built on a misguided view of the bible.

7:47 AM  
Blogger Jason said...

Dave,

I suspect Ehrman isn't so much trying to justify non-belief, as he is trying to speak out against some things he was taught, which he felt betrayed by later when he learned other things instead. There's a pretty strong either/or dichotomy being hammered for acceptance in some schools, and so when the 'either' fails the 'or' becomes the natural fall-back point--at about the same intensity (and maybe at about the same original reasonableness--or lack thereof. {s})

His particular case is distressing and puzzling in some regards; but it's probably due to perceived betrayal. And that could have been avoided. (i.e. along with the very orthodox Dorothy Sayers, speaking on much the same topic: "For this state of affairs, I'm inclined to blame the orthodox." {s})


Which, now that I've written this, looks to be dittoing things that others have already said since yesterday. {g} But I felt like I needed to answer, too; so, there it is. (Kind of 'again'. {s})

Jason

8:06 AM  
Blogger Jason said...

Yuckabuck,

Even a concise repl