tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post6004021205242774050..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: SACRED TEXTS IN AN ORAL CULTURE—How Did They Function?Ben Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-81029492036901679342007-10-17T09:03:00.000-07:002007-10-17T09:03:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington,I found your discussion of the or...Dr. Witherington,<BR/>I found your discussion of the oral and written cultural background of the NT most interesting. I have read a lot of Ken E. Bailey's material on the semitic background of the gospels, the parables, and he emphasizes the primary oral culture of Jesus and the early church in Judea. I have also read Walter J. Ong on orality and literacy, which describes how oral and written culture collided when the Greeks developed literacy. I don't know if you've read any of his work, but I highly recommend it. Also Jack Goody and Ian Watt go back further into the ancient Near East and look at orality and literacy. I would be interested to hear your Baylor lectures when they're posted.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10505598666481814752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-32850726723062604162007-10-09T19:10:00.000-07:002007-10-09T19:10:00.000-07:00Senior moment on Augustine! he considered the NT i...Senior moment on Augustine! he considered the NT inferior writing, but I've heard other scholars say some NT authors, including Paul, write inferior Greek.--Jim JohnsonJim Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03797430007030018141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-76771738257753778962007-10-09T18:39:00.000-07:002007-10-09T18:39:00.000-07:00I’ve been quite interested in how oral culture imp...I’ve been quite interested in how oral culture impacts biblical studies and am glad to read this piece that focuses on rhetoric, although I’m left wondering why Augustine and others considered NT Greek so inferior. I think oral culture also allowed for a great deal of social control since the transmitter of information in keeping with group mores would decide who could receive the information, which is unlike written culture where once the text is freely available, the locus of control shifts toward the individual. When God told Moses to write down his words he initiated what was bound to become a large scale cultural change.--Jim JohnsonJim Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03797430007030018141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-25503694023146996482007-10-09T17:32:00.000-07:002007-10-09T17:32:00.000-07:00Perhaps someone could tell me how this would best ...Perhaps someone could tell me how this would best be applied. if we are to rely on oral tradition then how are we to know what the author meant to emphasize?<BR/><BR/>Example: I did not say he cheats on his wife.<BR/><BR/>If you stress a different word in the above sentence each time you read it you would get multiple different meanings ant interpretations. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated. If I am off the mark please also let me know.<BR/><BR/>MagnusMagnushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645497952033803558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-81694302290151069152007-10-09T17:25:00.000-07:002007-10-09T17:25:00.000-07:00Perhaps someone could help me with something that ...Perhaps someone could help me with something that I was thinking about while reading this post. if we are to put more thought in the oral argument that they made in the NT then how can we know how to interpret the Scripture? What I mean is how do we know what word or words to stress more than others? <BR/><BR/>Example: I did not say he cheated on his wife.<BR/><BR/>Now if you take the above sentence and stress a different word each time you read it then you would come up with several different interpretations.<BR/><BR/>Any help or guidanc ewould be aprreciated. if I missed the meaning of the post please let me know that as well.<BR/><BR/>magnusMagnushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645497952033803558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-37496619730027757822007-10-09T15:47:00.000-07:002007-10-09T15:47:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington--I am a Truett grad and was pleas...Dr. Witherington--<BR/><BR/>I am a Truett grad and was pleased to see you would be lecturing there. I am preparing to move overseas and so I was unable to attend your lecture. But the topic of your first lecture is of great interest to me as my future role will demand that I understand the relationship between scripture and its function in oral cultures.<BR/><BR/>One thing from your lecture that surprised me was your confidence that Paul and other NT writers had a self-conscious awareness that they were writing scripture, buttressed especially by your citation of 1 Th 2:13.<BR/><BR/>I hold to a high view of the authority of scripture so I am not predisposed to rejecting as incredulous a claim like this. But I think I still hold two reservations on this point. I would be very eager to hear your explanations on this point in the likely event that I am overlooking some angle that resolves the dissonance.<BR/><BR/>(1) I've often felt it was unlikely that Paul considered himself to be writing scripture for a variety of reasons. Epistolary greetings and the like I believe you dealt with already by recasting the genre for interpretation for these writings. But I still am curious how you would deal with a passage such as 1 Cor 7, where Paul explicitly attributes some of his teachings to the Lord (v. 10), but some to his own judgment and not from the Lord directly (v. 12). This is just a single case, but is there a compelling reason not to take this as exemplary of the way the whole Pauline corpus should be read?<BR/><BR/>(2) Early in the lecture you make the point that the careful use of rhetorical devices dependent on oral reading argues that none of the original authors would have ever conceived or intended of these works being rendered into a language other than Greek. But many of these same rhetorically skilled NT writers had themselves cited OT scripture from the LXX or their own paraphrases, which seems to suggest an understanding --maybe even an assumption--that scripture could be and should be translated. If this logic holds, would you hold more strongly to your assertion that the NT writers never conceived of their rhetoric being rendered into a language other than Greek, or your view that they were consciously writing scripture (which they evidently held to be translatable)?<BR/><BR/>Reading your lecture this week has been thought-provoking and a fruitful exercise as I prepare to venture out towards new work among a MidEast people group without a full translation of the scriptures and a primarily oral culture. I'll look forward to your thoughts on these two queries.<BR/><BR/>SDBScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15145950133530093629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-48241434751470566862007-10-08T08:11:00.000-07:002007-10-08T08:11:00.000-07:00Ben,Thank you for posting this. I look forward to ...Ben,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for posting this. I look forward to your forthcoming book.<BR/><BR/>There is a bit of irony in that I read your lecture without making any noise or even moving my lips!<BR/><BR/>DavidDavid A Boothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08718043590946290563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-58000856563704102862007-10-07T21:17:00.000-07:002007-10-07T21:17:00.000-07:00Thank you posting this insightful essay. Do you s...Thank you posting this insightful essay. Do you speak at churches, as well? My church needs to get the idea out of their heads that the Bible should be interpreted however "I feel that it ‘speaks to me.’" <BR/><BR/>Also, you stated, "Failure to recognize the rhetorical signals in numerous NT documents has led to many false conclusions especially when it comes to the letters and homilies of the NT."<BR/><BR/>I am wondering what those conclusions could be. Could you give some examples please?<BR/><BR/>Thank you very much for your time and work.<BR/><BR/>God BlessMark "T-Hill"https://www.blogger.com/profile/10687653568260355433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-35009350149472505002007-10-06T19:54:00.000-07:002007-10-06T19:54:00.000-07:00Hello! I had a class on Galatians at what used t...Hello!<BR/> I had a class on Galatians at what used to be called Circleville Bible College, that would mention rhetorical criticism, but mostly kept to an epistolary analysis. It was interesting, but the parts of the letter didn't seem to be connected in any organic way. And, I wondered what the big deal was regarding rhetorical analysis.<BR/> Recently, I read most of your commentary on Galatians, and was impressed with how much of the letter was explained by rhetorical analysis. I think the difference was actually having someone show me step by step how the rules of ancient rhetoric were being followed in the letter. It was a convincing presentation. <BR/> (I have read your view of Romans 7, and Paul's use of impersonation. I guess I need to read other examples of the technique, because right now it just seems strange to think that Paul is acting out the cry of Adam there. It's probably a cultural thing on my part.)<BR/>God Bless You!<BR/>Chuckyuckabuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05286909279733012915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-69641206888187229012007-10-06T16:54:00.000-07:002007-10-06T16:54:00.000-07:00I forgot to mention that the live video of the lec...I forgot to mention that the live video of the lectures will be available at the Baylor University, Truett Seminary website, under the Parchman Lectures. <BR/><BR/>BW3Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-85083684792703467622007-10-06T16:52:00.000-07:002007-10-06T16:52:00.000-07:00You are all welcome to point folks to come and rea...You are all welcome to point folks to come and read this. <BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-677796321805610092007-10-06T15:38:00.000-07:002007-10-06T15:38:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington:Wonderful piece, I am going to ec...Dr. Witherington:<BR/><BR/>Wonderful piece, I am going to echo the previous request. Please post the rest of the lectures... They seem to be most enlightening.<BR/><BR/>May I share this info, of course, via linking to your blog or referring people to come read it all directly?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647763383248035534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-82877995181366177752007-10-06T14:07:00.000-07:002007-10-06T14:07:00.000-07:00Wow! It's a real treat to have the text of this le...Wow! It's a real treat to have the text of this lecture. I almost feel like I'm at Truett Seminary with you. I certainly agree that the NT documents follow ancient rhetorical conventions and should be studied this way. I'm going to show this to my wife Jeanne because she teaches English and would be interested in this subject.<BR/>MarcMarc Axelrodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04364703655694001236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-12354177414161913702007-10-06T08:13:00.000-07:002007-10-06T08:13:00.000-07:00Yes indeed--- read most anything written by Harry ...Yes indeed--- read most anything written by Harry Gamble, especially his Yale monographs on Books and Papyri. <BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-74829014828486027562007-10-06T08:12:00.000-07:002007-10-06T08:12:00.000-07:00Indeed, Peter, Augustine.....thanks so much. Thos...Indeed, Peter, Augustine.....thanks so much. Those A list church fathers are easily scrambled together.<BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-5301654525212028892007-10-06T07:23:00.000-07:002007-10-06T07:23:00.000-07:00Thank you so much for posting this. It is incredib...Thank you so much for posting this. It is incredibly helpful. Can you recommend any books for further study on this subject?Child of Godhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472212129835734317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-45646519227037833522007-10-06T06:04:00.000-07:002007-10-06T06:04:00.000-07:00Anselm said that Ambrose was the most remarkable m...<I>Anselm said that Ambrose was the most remarkable man he had ever met</I><BR/><BR/>Indeed he would have been if they had met, for he would have been more than 700 years old. I think you mean Augustine, not Anselm.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-33990798491974943672007-10-06T01:32:00.000-07:002007-10-06T01:32:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington, thank you for a timely and very ...Dr. Witherington, thank you for a timely and very insightful introduction to the nature of NT writings. Insights like these for the epistles and Acts combined with the work of Gerhardsson and Bauckham on the oral traditions should revolutionise our understanding of the gospel.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12014124722441378520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-83827685573469073342007-10-05T19:37:00.000-07:002007-10-05T19:37:00.000-07:00Hi Ross:Nice to hear from you. We'll see about the...Hi Ross:<BR/><BR/>Nice to hear from you. We'll see about the other ones. <BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-10780549528122620572007-10-05T19:30:00.000-07:002007-10-05T19:30:00.000-07:00Hi BenThank you for posting this, it is extremely ...Hi Ben<BR/><BR/>Thank you for posting this, it is extremely interesting and helpful. I do hope you will eventually post the other three.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16951860944918774395noreply@blogger.com