tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post3873148740530050076..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: Making a Meal of It-- Rethinking the Theology of the Lord's SupperBen Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-72952698247344523912007-11-03T07:35:00.000-07:002007-11-03T07:35:00.000-07:00I haven't seen Ben reply to the question about chi...I haven't seen Ben reply to the question about children. A few years ago as I was serving communion, Dr. Kristina LaCelle-Peterson, Professor of Church History at Houghton College, and her husband Mark brought their two young children (ages 4 and 2, maybe) to receive the elements. Some people were shocked. She explained later, "If the ability to comprehend the mystery is the criterion for receiving, I will never be able to take communion!" Childlike faith in Jesus' gift of himself for our sake suffices.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15953395958483859744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-59584521340315002562007-09-18T15:14:00.000-07:002007-09-18T15:14:00.000-07:00I think that fundamenatlly we need to see Communio...I think that fundamenatlly we need to see Communion as a means of Grace. I dont agree with certain views about what actually takes place in the bread and the wine, this does not really concern me. I think the key concern is to see that it is a means of grace that is extended to all who participate no matter where the in the journey. <BR/>Anyway just some thoughts.<BR/>PeaceCPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07061614570571933329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-20460223081005010432007-09-16T10:35:00.000-07:002007-09-16T10:35:00.000-07:00I gave a lesson a few months ago on the Lord's Sup...I gave a lesson a few months ago on the Lord's Supper, and suggested that we have many problems in how we take it today. In my congregation, we usually take about 5-10 minutes to do the whole thing, which has greatly bothered me as I've done more and more study on the topic. But, when I suggested we should perhaps give it more time and even separate it from our normal services, and stressed the idea of Christian fellowship within the meal itself, I was met with several dissatisfied looks and comments. I suppose it will take some time to push past some of the traditions which have made this sacrament so trivial. Anyway, I look forward to reading this book.Lesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05454747871999481708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-72871019364360171322007-09-15T23:51:00.000-07:002007-09-15T23:51:00.000-07:00James wrote... "P.S. I think that, in the context ...James wrote... "<I>P.S. I think that, in the context of I Corinthians 10, the table of the Lord is the communion table, since vv 16-17 mention the bread and the wine.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Indeed, however there are some intriguing scriptures which seem to connect the altar and the Lord's table together in some way:<BR/><BR/>Ezek 41:22: "The altar was of wood, three cubits high and its length two cubits; its corners, its base and its sides were of wood. And he said to me, 'This is <I>the table</I> that is before the LORD.'"<BR/><BR/>Mal 1:7,12: "You are presenting defiled food upon My altar. But you say, 'How have we defiled You?' In that you say, 'The table of the LORD is to be despised.' ... But you are profaning it, in that you say, 'The table of the Lord is defiled, and as for its fruit, its food is to be despised.'"<BR/><BR/>It is also fascinating to observe the statement in Heb 13:10 that "We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat." However, I think that Heb 13 clarifies that it is not foods that benefit the heart, but God's grace through the sacrifice of Christ at Golgatha. William L. Lane in his excellent commentary on Hebrews (Word Biblical Commentary series) says that "'Eating from the altar' is a figurative expression for participating in the sacrifice. The act of eating from the altar in Jerusalem gave those who participated in the meal a share in what had transpired on the altar." He also explains how "'altar' appears as metonymy for 'sacrifice.'... By metonymy, the altar that Christians possess is for them an impure place where there can be no sacrificial meal." In Lev 6:30 we read: "No sin offering shall be eaten from which any of the blood is brought into the tent of meeting to make atonement in the holy place; it shall be burned with fire" (cf. Lev 16:27). So, if the point of Heb 13:9 is that grace is not mediated by sacrificial meals, then it seems straightforward that the bread and the wine have no mystical or spiritual benefit.<BR/><BR/>Ben, I appreciated your comments. You wrote... "<I>So far as I can tell, the Corinthians were not sitting around eating 'the bread of haste' or dipping it in the 'bitter herbs'.</I>"<BR/><BR/>You may be correct about the Corinthians (although how would you know this?), however Jesus didn't modify the passover meal when He initiated the Lord's supper. It seems that Jesus wasn't changing the passover meal in its details, but providing its true meaning in light of the shadow the passover represented of what was to come concerning Himself.<BR/><BR/>Ben also wrote... "<I>...the phrase 'discerning the body' does not refer to the elements, it refers to being sensitive to your fellow Christians in the body of Christ and thus waiting for them and partaking with them.</I>"<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that this had nothing to do with discerning the body in the bread and that this was the direct application Paul was making for the Corinthians, but I don't think Paul intended it to be limited only to being sensitive to your fellow Christians and waiting for them. If we take the first half of 1 Cor 10 into account, it would seem (at least in the larger context) that Paul is admonishing the participants to each one judge his own body rightly according to his heart's motives and the seriousness with which he treats the sacrifice of Christ on his behalf. In fact, this is precisely what 1 Cor 11:28 says, "But a man must examine himself..."<BR/><BR/>Good discussion.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840861955922003252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-20520982318571734392007-09-15T09:26:00.000-07:002007-09-15T09:26:00.000-07:00P.S. There is nothing in 1 Cor. 10-11 about disce...P.S. There is nothing in 1 Cor. 10-11 about discerning the blood of Christ in the elements, and the phrase 'discerning the body' does not refer to the elements, it refers to being sensitive to your fellow Christians in the body of Christ and thus waiting for them and partaking with them. That's what partaking in a worthy, and unifying mode refers to. <BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-21779780132167250872007-09-15T09:24:00.000-07:002007-09-15T09:24:00.000-07:00Holy Mackerel:It is impossible to keep up with all...Holy Mackerel:<BR/><BR/>It is impossible to keep up with all of you. A few telegraphic response: 1) there is no Scriptural basis for epiclesis so far as I can see; 2) there is also no Scriptural basis for thinking that Christ is somehow physically in or attached to the communal elements; 3)equally the Lord's Supper is not a Passover meal, it is a modification of a Passover meal, a thanksgiving meal, and a few other things. So far as I can tell, the Corinthians were not sitting around eating 'the bread of haste' or dipping it in the 'bitter herbs'. Much of the modern Christian reinterpretation of the Jewish seder is pure allegory which represents neither ancient Christian practice nor proper Jewish practice either ancient or modern.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>Ben W.Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-73455112677194059512007-09-14T16:24:00.000-07:002007-09-14T16:24:00.000-07:00P.S. I think that, in the context of I Corinthian...P.S. I think that, in the context of I Corinthians 10, the table of the Lord is the communion table, since vv 16-17 mention the bread and the wine.James Patehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247799389009268470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-46801326311964030652007-09-14T16:20:00.000-07:002007-09-14T16:20:00.000-07:00Thanks for your comments, Ryan.I've been thinking ...Thanks for your comments, Ryan.<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking about this issue some as of late, since I've been exposed more to the Catholic position on a Christian dating site. He's been referring to the passage about discerning the body and blood of the Lord, using that to support transubstantiation. And, then, I've heard Protestants who agree with him and admit that Protestantism treats the Lord's supper as a "mere" memorial. I'm not entirely sure what they have against memorials. Maybe they think that saying the Lord's supper is just that disregards God's presence and power in it.<BR/><BR/>I have problems with transubstantiation myself, but I may not entirely understand it. After all, Jesus said "This is my body." That bread was not Jesus' body, was it? He was right there holding the bread.James Patehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247799389009268470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-15807229749722487972007-09-14T14:09:00.000-07:002007-09-14T14:09:00.000-07:00James wrote... "I Corinthians 10:20-21 contrasts e...James wrote... "<I>I Corinthians 10:20-21 contrasts eating at the Lord's table with eating at the table of demons. He says that eating at the table of demons is fellowshipping with them. I think a logical conclusion is that eating the Lord's supper is fellowship with the Lord, not only a memorial.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Interestingly, Paul concludes the above by referring to how Israel, when they partook of the sacrifices at the altar, were sharers or partners <I>in the altar</I>. Perhaps we might have wanted this verse to say "...were sharers of (or with) the Lord" but it doesn't; instead it is the altar being referred to. That doesn't mean that Paul is not saying we are not in fellowship with the Lord here, but we are always to be in fellowship with Him, and not just at the table. It seems to me that this puzzle may be solved by thinking of the following points:<BR/><BR/>1. Baptism is only once and represents the turning point of entrance into the kingdom.<BR/><BR/>2. However, Jesus tells us to "take up our crosses daily and follow Him" which is a daily following, a consistent endurance in dying to ourselves.<BR/><BR/>Since baptism is symbolic and we don't think that Jesus is literally dying with us as we are immersed, I don't see how we interpret the bread and the wine differently, assuming that He is in or with the bread and wine. It seems to me that these are all symbolic of our spiritual acts of worship to God, the offering of ourselves to His service. One is done once and the other is performed repeatedly. Perhaps the author to the Hebrews puts it best when he writes:<BR/><BR/>"Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited. We have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned outside the camp. Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people through His own blood, suffered outside the gate. So, let us go out to Him outside the camp, <B>bearing His reproach</B>" (Heb 13:9-13).<BR/><BR/>I believe that the table of the Lord is our showing unity with Him in bearing His reproach for the sake of the gospel. Just as we symbolize unity with Him in His death by baptism in water which is once, so too we continually bring to remembrance the offering Jesus made of His body to the Lord and we unify with Him in His reproach.<BR/><BR/>Ben's comments have certainly got me thinking, as I haven't thought so deeply about this before. What do you think?<BR/><BR/>RyanRyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840861955922003252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-58987919947352446322007-09-14T13:35:00.000-07:002007-09-14T13:35:00.000-07:00Hi Ross,So consubstantiation says that a Christian...Hi Ross,<BR/><BR/>So consubstantiation says that a Christian is literally eating the body of Jesus, but because the body is in the bread, not because the body is the bread. Is that right?James Patehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247799389009268470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-61275699047980911802007-09-14T12:26:00.000-07:002007-09-14T12:26:00.000-07:00Hi James:"Consubstantiation" - a view traditionall...Hi James:<BR/><BR/>"Consubstantiation" - a view traditionally associated with Luther. Of the reformers, he stood closest to the Roman Catholic position of "transubstantiation. However, he doubted a change occurs in the substance of the communion elements. The communicants ingest bread and wine, he taught. Nevertheless, Christ's body and blood are present in the elements. Christ is not present instead of bread and wine, but with them. The communicants ingest the Lord's body and blood under and with the communion elements, with the substance of the physical realities. Hence, Luther proposed the term 'consubstantiation" to denote the mystery of the Eucharist.<BR/>Although Luther and Catholics disagreed concerning the means, they found basic agreement concerning the result: Christ is physically present at the Lord's Supper, present in the communion elements. For Luther, the human Christ, who is both in heaven and everywhere in the universe, is localized in the bread and wine of the Eucharist. These elements reveal Christ's presence here for us.<BR/><BR/>Zwingli in contrast claimed the Lord's Supper was a memorial meal, a vivid act of remembrace through which we memorialize Christ's sacrifice. Moreover according to Zwingli our participation in the communion elements does not mediate communion with the real flesh and blood of Jesus. Christ's presence is not 'in' the bread and wine at all. The glorified body of the risen Lord is localized in heaven at the right hand of the Father, therefore he cannot be present on earth in the elements. Rather than Jesus being physically present in the bread and wine, Zwingli argued Jesus is spiritually present. His presence resides in the believing community who remember the Lord's sacrifice.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10523177878557450248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-50213895333895400612007-09-14T11:28:00.000-07:002007-09-14T11:28:00.000-07:00Hi Ryan,You raise a good point when you say that t...Hi Ryan,<BR/><BR/>You raise a good point when you say that the Passover was a memorial of a past event (the Exodus), and therefore the Lord's supper (as the new Passover) is also. At least that's how I'm understanding what you are saying. At the same time, Ben may have a point when he says that the supper was like a meal with God. I Corinthians 10:20-21 contrasts eating at the Lord's table with eating at the table of demons. He says that eating at the table of demons is fellowshipping with them. I think a logical conclusion is that eating the Lord's supper is fellowship with the Lord, not only a memorial. I'm not sure if that is what's called consubstantiation, but it might be.James Patehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14247799389009268470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-79892972984980638252007-09-14T11:03:00.000-07:002007-09-14T11:03:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherinton,Do you make a connection with the ...Dr. Witherinton,<BR/>Do you make a connection with the "seder" meal? Is communion the new meal of rememberance for the new covenant? Did the early Jewish Christians continue the Jewish elements of the meal? Is family the better context for the meal? If not how do you conduct a meal within a large group context? <BR/>I guess I might just read the book. But any answers would be enlightening.J. Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17136236045215120290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-18453130821841820202007-09-14T09:40:00.000-07:002007-09-14T09:40:00.000-07:00Along with Nick (Falantedios) to make mention of J...Along with Nick (Falantedios) to make mention of John Mark Hicks' book, Come to the Table -- may be a thoughtful supplementary read along with Dr. W's book. I had Hicks in seminary. Here are some additional thoughts he probably would have liked to include in his book. Found at his blog:<BR/><A HREF="http://professingprofessor.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html" REL="nofollow">Reflections</A><BR/>(Scroll down to Thurs., Dec. 01)JM O'Clairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13171066290239450750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-59870916789085736152007-09-14T09:33:00.000-07:002007-09-14T09:33:00.000-07:00Ben wrote... "It is an odd thing, isn't it that so...Ben wrote... "<I>It is an odd thing, isn't it that some conservative Protestants actually have a quite magical view of the Bible (take for instance the Bible code nonsense...). But whilst holding those kind of magical views of the Bible they busily denigrate or just trivialize the 'other' sacraments.</I>"<BR/><BR/>I agree, this does seem to be a contradiction. While I don't think that God intended to prove His word was true by embedding secret codes in equidistant letter sequences, I realize that there are things we do not know because they have not been revealed to us: "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law" (Deut 29:29). What has been revealed is sufficient for every good work (2 Tim 3:16-17). What I think has been revealed concerning food and drink is that "...the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Rom 14:17).<BR/><BR/>I am wondering how you scripturally reconcile Rom 14:17 with a mystical aspect to the Lord's supper. It seems to me that the Lord's supper is something like the passover meal of the Old Covenant, and it doesn't seem that there was anything mystical to that. It was a reminder of what God did for the Israelites in passing over them in the time of judgment. In the same sense, what we have in the New Covenant practice of the Lord's supper is only to be practiced until He returns, and is a reminder of God's passing over of us who put their trust in Christ.<BR/><BR/>I would also like to hear your response to Donner's questions regarding epiclesis.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840861955922003252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-31511479244427364502007-09-14T08:50:00.000-07:002007-09-14T08:50:00.000-07:00Hi Andy: You might be interested to know the Salva...Hi Andy: You might be interested to know the Salvation Army in Canada is considering embracing the Sacrament of Holy Communion. Recently I had a student do extensive research on the issue and contended it was indeed fitting for the Army, now considered a denomination, to offer the Lord's Supper. For years many Salvationists - officers and the rank and file have participated at the Table in both ecumenical settings and in other churches.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10523177878557450248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-88811916194671747612007-09-14T08:47:00.000-07:002007-09-14T08:47:00.000-07:00Hi Dr. Witherington,Last weekend, my family and I ...Hi Dr. Witherington,<BR/><BR/>Last weekend, my family and I returned home and attended the church I grew up in. The pastor, a wise and loving man who has supported me in my call more than anyone else, knew that I am in the ordination process for the UMC and asked my wife and I to serve the Lord's Supper/Communion. It was the first time I had ever done so and it will be one of the most memorial experiences of my life. It was such a blessing handing the cup to children and adults with the statement "This is his blood given for you." I almost choked up as I looked into my four year old's eyes and told him that this sacrement was accomplished on behalf of him. Also, seeing the other children's big and innocent eyes as I served them really brought the power of the gospel home. Looking at those children receiving the gift in a child-like way brought home to me "why" Jesus suffered as he did. It reminded me of Isaiah's statement that the Christ would see and be satisfied.<BR/><BR/><BR/>When I returned home and related the experience to my one of my friends(a Baptist), he got all over my case for allowing kids to recieve Communion. <BR/><BR/>Ben, how should one view children particapation?<BR/><BR/>I look forward to reading your book. God bless.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12618405243471829940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-89114044911309508092007-09-14T08:42:00.000-07:002007-09-14T08:42:00.000-07:00For what it worth I had a typo earlier. In my last...For what it worth I had a typo earlier. In my last paragraph I meant, "I think the SA would be better off..." not "wouldn't."Andy Miller IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04663558701681512586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-73147169880970161802007-09-14T08:00:00.000-07:002007-09-14T08:00:00.000-07:00I don't come by in a few days and look at all this...I don't come by in a few days and look at all this stuff!<BR/><BR/>From a Stone-Campbell Reformation perspective, John Mark Hicks wrote a book a few years back called "Come To The Table" that seems to mesh well with the points you're raising in this book. John Mark Hicks anchors his theology in the OT tradition of God's people eating together with him. I agreed with him then and I'd probably agree with you now.<BR/><BR/>I get so frustrated when I hear people say something like, "That'd be as wrong as adding meat to the Lord's Supper." That's actually a common cliche in the Churches of Christ/Christian Church circles, and I wonder if any of them have actually read a WHOLE Lord's Supper account and not just the parts we snip out to proof-text our version of it.<BR/><BR/>in HIS love,<BR/>NickFalantedioshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16142960942087875045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-13672711235317547382007-09-14T07:43:00.000-07:002007-09-14T07:43:00.000-07:00Ben,Could you shed some light on the practice of '...Ben,<BR/><BR/>Could you shed some light on the practice of 'epiclesis'? Two questions: 1. Howard Marshall in his book on the Lord's Supper concludes that 'epiclesis' cannot find support in the books of the NT. Where else apart from church tradition do we find a theological basis for this practice of invoking the Spirit? 2. Is the language of asking the Spirit to 'come upon the church' appropriate in light of the fact that the Spirit already resides _within_ us?<BR/><BR/>Appreciate your comments. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>donnerDonnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01195408200752450586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-26015829902025388432007-09-14T07:12:00.000-07:002007-09-14T07:12:00.000-07:00Hi Jonathan:You can get the books from Amazon, try...Hi Jonathan:<BR/><BR/>You can get the books from Amazon, try their International direct service--- see the listing at their website as follows---<BR/><BR/><BR/>International Direct by Amazon.com<BR/><BR/> * International Direct provides Amazon.com customers with duty and tax estimation during checkout, as well as customs clearance through the courier. With this unique service, your order will arrive at your door without surprise duty charges.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>Ben W.Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-7847675777734363342007-09-14T06:39:00.000-07:002007-09-14T06:39:00.000-07:00Well, that's not what I meant... I meant it in the...Well, that's not what I meant... I meant it in the sense of a defined, structured form for public worship, a prescribed body of rites. That's not a misunderstanding of the term... just a different, yet legitimate understanding. <BR/><BR/>Incidentally, I always grew up in churches that did make use of a particular liturgy, which I found helpful because it provided a good framework for understanding how the sacraments fit within church life. It also provided a good explanation of why we do what we do.Liam Thatcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14181154550055637367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-23561536362894487292007-09-14T06:37:00.000-07:002007-09-14T06:37:00.000-07:00From probably a different perspective, as an offic...From probably a different perspective, as an officer (pastor) in The Salvation Army, I am looking forward to you book. For those who don’t know we are a non-practicing denomination as it relates to the sacraments. Among other social and ecclesiological reasons, William Booth largely dropped the practice because of the way it was observed in the Church of England in the late 19th century. I am interested in learning about the non-ceremonial aspects of early churches practice at large meals. <BR/><BR/>I can’t help but think of last Sunday, after I was done preaching (to a racially, economically mixed congregation), my wife and 4 months baby and I were eating at the church with a dozen homeless guys. We spoke about Jesus and his sacrifice, and about how hot it can get here in Texas. I think we had a form of communion that afternoon.<BR/><BR/>Then the next day I found myself eating a meal in our family shelter where 15 families found a place to sleep last night. <BR/><BR/>Yeah…I think the Salvation Army wouldn’t be better if we included that sacrament in our regular worship service, but I don’t want to give up meeting Jesus in what Booth called the “sacrament of the good Samaritan.” Looking forward to reading your book.Andy Miller IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04663558701681512586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-16738417226180282742007-09-14T05:44:00.000-07:002007-09-14T05:44:00.000-07:00Hi Liam. You state you are "a part of a church tha...Hi Liam. You state you are "a part of a church that by and large doesn't use liturgy ..." Unfortunately this in my mind is a misunderstanding of the word 'liturgy'. Liturgy is "the public and representative work of the people of God" and every church has a liturgy! <BR/><BR/>In addition to the excelent small book by Tom Wright, there are a number of excellent books on the sacraments from a variety of traditions. One is Leonard J. Vander Zee's 'Recovering the Sacraments for Evangelical Worship: Christ, Baptism and the Lord's Supper'. Laurence Hull Stookey in 1993 wrote 'Eucharist: Christ's Feast With the Church.' Gordon T. Smith in Canada has recently written in 2005 'A Holy Meal: The Lord's Supper in the life of the church' which is a call to Christians to reconsider and embrace the holy meal ordained by Jesus.Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10523177878557450248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-76377682943336010312007-09-14T04:39:00.000-07:002007-09-14T04:39:00.000-07:00Hi Ben;really enjoy your blog and thinkingdo you k...Hi Ben;<BR/><BR/>really enjoy your blog and thinking<BR/><BR/>do you know where i could get the books in South Africa, where i live...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05104658894313744447noreply@blogger.com