tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post3388676257202567808..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: A Fresh Approach to Genesis by Dr. Bill ArnoldBen Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-36528669288644238862008-10-09T13:43:00.000-07:002008-10-09T13:43:00.000-07:00Dr. Arnold, I appreciate your response. I agree ...Dr. Arnold,<BR/> I appreciate your response. I agree with you that Genesis makes no claim of authorship. It seems to me that Deuteronomy does make a pretty explicit claim as being Mosaic at its core, though. You didn't mention the "D" source (and its unrelated to Genesis, anyway, I guess), but being that the "D" source, if it existed, clearly presupposes "P", wouldn't one have to either have "P" as being essentially from the time of Moses, or else Deuteronomy is...well, not really being truthful in its claims? <BR/><BR/>Following from that, it seems to me (and I am admittedly ignorant of much of this) like there are pretty strong arguments from the past 40 years or so of scholarship which seem to undermine the critical assumption that Deuteronomy is in fact, much later than Moses. Would you agree with that?<BR/><BR/>I'm probably missing a lot in all of this, but if the critical arguments regarding "D" don't show a late date (and possibly even suggest Mosaic authorship for the bulk of it), doesn't that imply that, whatever sources there were, none would be much later than Moses, as "D" would clearly be the latest?<BR/><BR/>On a lighter note, any idea when or if the commentary will be available from Barnes & Noble?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13980911747803791416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-74674938714794428432008-10-08T19:49:00.000-07:002008-10-08T19:49:00.000-07:00Hi Justin. Several good questions here. You’re rig...Hi Justin. <BR/><BR/>Several good questions here. You’re right; I cannot detail here my views on all these things. But in a word, I think Genesis is comprised of an old Israelite epic, which has been supplemented by two strands of materials from the priestly guild of ancient Israel. Or more specifically, one priestly editor (the Holiness redactor) has combined the old epic with priestly materials and added his own explanations along the way. But these are ways of explaining what we’re seeing in the text, and for my money the older JEDP or Graf-Wellhausen documentary approach has simply lost its explanatory power. <BR/><BR/>Now as for your question about the role of Moses in all this, that’s where it gets dicey. The book is strictly speaking anonymous. Tradition ties the Pentateuch to Moses, and our contemporary conceptions of “authorship” lead us to make assumptions we shouldn’t make. So I’ll answer as follows: (1) I believe Moses existed (against much of today’s scholarship), and that (2) he was the fountainhead of Israelite law, in that he commissioned the sons of Aaron to keep and develop the laws. He may have left considerable amounts of material, perhaps in poetry or perhaps orally, which eventually came to be written down in the old Israelite epic I’ve referred to. But you will note I began this portion with “I believe…” In other words, we simply cannot know so much. My views of composition expressed briefly here and detailed a bit more in the commentary are based, I believe, on evidence as presented in the text of Genesis. But beyond this we’re left to faith issues, and we’re working with no data. <BR/><BR/>BillBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09672580451122861501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-76952097273412701692008-10-08T07:31:00.000-07:002008-10-08T07:31:00.000-07:00Dr. Arnold (If you're still here): Do you have ...Dr. Arnold (If you're still here):<BR/> Do you have time to flesh this out just a little more for those of us (like me) who haven't read much on the Documentary theory? In particular, you say that "J" (or something close to it), you wouldn't say is late, but how early would you date it? The same question for "P"...pre-exilic is a pretty wide-range. :) It seems like you would date "H" latest of all, so I am assuming that you see basically all of Genesis as pre-exilic (maybe giving room for editing?) Do you see Moses as playing any role?<BR/><BR/>I know that was long, and I don't expect you to lay out your full view here. :) I am ordering the commentary in the next few days, I just was looking for a general overview. It's not often I get the chance to ask an OT scholar a question like this.<BR/><BR/>Thanks.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13980911747803791416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-27146150456452994202008-10-05T10:39:00.000-07:002008-10-05T10:39:00.000-07:00I've been looking forward to this one. Thanks ...I've been looking forward to this one. Thanks for posting an update, & thanks for your work with the NCBC series.<BR/><BR/>Now, when are we going to get that Luke commentary?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13980911747803791416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-66940760477277077072008-10-05T08:40:00.000-07:002008-10-05T08:40:00.000-07:00I won’t attempt to speak for BW3, of course, but I...I won’t attempt to speak for BW3, of course, but I will make a comment here in response. The new commentary does, in fact, summarize the issues and offer a new approach to an old crux (pp. 12-18). In sum, I argue that what we have in Genesis is a carefully crafted and edited final product, comprised of the following earlier sources. First, an old Israelite epic narrative, which is among the earliest written texts of ancient Israel, and may roughly be understood as similar to source-critical definitions of the J document. I am not in agreement with many today who date this epic late, and I also do not accept several other features of the Graf-Wellhausen definitions. Second, priestly materials typically identified by the siglum P. Against the Graf-Wellhausen JEDP theory, I see this material as pre-exilic based largely on impressive linguistic data presented in recent decades by Avi Hurvitz and others. Third, materials originating in a Holiness school distinct from other priestly materials, also of pre-exilic origins and assuming the earlier P traditions (which reverses the sequence of these sources in the JEDP theory). So I suppose for Genesis, that leaves us with JPH, instead of JEP. <BR/><BR/>But the characteristic of this commentary is the convergence of such older diachronic methods with the newer synchronic approaches emerging from literary critics since the 1970s. Many today still work with an either-or approach, while I am more in agreement with those who believe we can and should combine these methodologies. <BR/><BR/>Hope this helps. <BR/>BillBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09672580451122861501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-68765758845287676192008-10-04T20:21:00.000-07:002008-10-04T20:21:00.000-07:00Does this book discuss the current state of the JE...Does this book discuss the current state of the JEPD theory? I'm also curious about your thoughts on JEPD. Have you written anything online?Michael Krusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07562574596754907146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-8191199675744554982008-10-04T14:10:00.000-07:002008-10-04T14:10:00.000-07:00This is great news, Ben. I've greatly enjoyed the ...This is great news, Ben. I've greatly enjoyed the other volumes in the NCBC series I've got (though I've got mostly the NT ones – including your Revelation commentary). Looking forward to picking up this one.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad to hear some news about the NCBC, there's not much info to find about them regarding the progress of the series! Thanks for the heads up on this one.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17417564722949776043noreply@blogger.com