tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post1596184757520642604..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: Frank Viola's Reimagining Church-- Part ThreeBen Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-54054476941661995272008-09-11T12:30:00.000-07:002008-09-11T12:30:00.000-07:00Hi Peter: I don't assume that teachers should nece...Hi Peter: I don't assume that teachers should necessarily be elders or adminiatrators, but there were and are some with multiple gifts. And again I am not in favor of a clergy laity distinction but there is clearly a leader and non-leader distinction. Only some are called to be overseers or 'steerers'.<BR/><BR/>BW3Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-55019080085141561522008-09-11T06:57:00.000-07:002008-09-11T06:57:00.000-07:00Great last paragraph indeed. But why does that sem...Great last paragraph indeed. But why does that seminary trained teacher also have to exercise authority over the church? I don't mean by teaching but in directing all of its affairs. He or she is presumably a gifted teacher but does not have all the other gifts. So this is a very bad argument for a clergy/laity distinction and a hierarchy with one person at the top.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-37080493186893825582008-09-09T03:41:00.000-07:002008-09-09T03:41:00.000-07:00In the Methodist system we have both District Supe...In the Methodist system we have both District Superintendents and Bishops to whom ministers are accountable, and there is also the council of bishops to whom all the other bishops are accountable. Honestly, for us this is not a big issue. We even have a Judicial Council to help resolve disputes and issues. There is plenty of accountability.<BR/><BR/>BW3Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-72002728694245343232008-09-08T21:40:00.000-07:002008-09-08T21:40:00.000-07:00It is clear that a hierarchy is involved. But the...It is clear that a hierarchy is involved. But the practical question then becomes, how does one practice accountability of someone who you are to follow? The hierarchy itself will tend to protect those up the chain of command. Is there also a 'gift' for challenging said authorities? And when do we decide not to follow?<BR/><BR/>Viola had no realistic answers for his flat system, since it has minimal structure. (Which may act the same as anarchy in a society, that is, it leads directly to its opposite.) But most believers don't live in a flat system. How do we keep a rein on our shepherds? I'm not satified with the answers I've seen, anywhere, so I'm feeling around where I can't see here. How do you see it?Bob Longmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14874440096215197147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-16441130948453810172008-09-08T04:28:00.000-07:002008-09-08T04:28:00.000-07:00I'd talk to that Baptist brother. Course I would h...I'd talk to that Baptist brother. Course I would have to talk to my bishop as well :)<BR/><BR/>BW3Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-68131154627342182312008-09-08T04:23:00.000-07:002008-09-08T04:23:00.000-07:00Dear Dr Witherington,Thanks for the comprehensive ...Dear Dr Witherington,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comprehensive review.<BR/><BR/>The term 'Legal separation' describing the state of our inter- denominational relationship really made me sit up and ponder. How much we stand in need of God's mercy. <BR/><BR/>Paul warns in his pastoral instructions (Timothy, Titus) not to get involved with disputes and controversies as they result in divisions. <BR/><BR/>Do you think we have given too much focus in divisive matters of theology that has resulted in our 'legal separation'? <BR/><BR/>Ben, what would you do if the pastor of the Baptist church across the road came to your church with a proposal of a merger, putting aside the question of Arminianism-Calvinism before eschaton? :-)<BR/><BR/>Blessings, <BR/>KeithBethelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05288501753378078724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-28049093472763663502008-09-07T20:08:00.000-07:002008-09-07T20:08:00.000-07:00That last paragraph is a gem.That last paragraph is a gem.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01778917004531654254noreply@blogger.com