tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post116497643673577696..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: The Evangelical-Republican Alliance begins to CrumbleBen Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-8125253704766477872008-10-28T22:53:00.000-07:002008-10-28T22:53:00.000-07:00The Evangelical Republican Party (ERP) has thrown ...The Evangelical Republican Party (ERP) has thrown the traditional conservative Republican Party down the path of destruction, and is to blame for the resurgence of the Democratic successes. The Evangelical Christians are also to blame for the historic mess we are in today and their tax-exempt status should be denied. My dear, great country is dissolving before me and it is they who have destroyed it. Remove them from the political powers of Washington and let's begin to rebuild our wonderful country once again.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16857940913980443161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-51813489450184434552008-08-28T19:46:00.000-07:002008-08-28T19:46:00.000-07:00Matthew 25:41-46 is where the Biblical mandate to ...Matthew 25:41-46 is where the Biblical mandate to feed the poor, care for the marginalized, and clothe the needy comes from. I find it odd that there are conservative Christians who are not aware of the basic tenants of their religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1166507355392616302006-12-18T21:49:00.000-08:002006-12-18T21:49:00.000-08:00I recently read "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phil...I recently read "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phillips. The book is tendentious, long, and worthwhile. <BR/><BR/>Phillips is a northeastern, secular Republican best known for writing "The Emerging Republican Majority" in the Nixon era, in which he accurately predicted Republican expansion in the south.<BR/><BR/>Phillips decries what he perceives as excessive evangelical/fundamentalist influence in the Republican party, and sees this influence as ultimately reducing the Republicans to a minority party.<BR/><BR/>He accuses evangelicals of being so preoccupied with millenialist concerns that they have neglected the present realities of poverty and the environment. He is no fan at all of Tim La Haye.<BR/><BR/>He also criticizes current Republican leadership for ruinous deficit spending, overextended delusions of empire, and corrupt pursuit of the interests of Big Oil. <BR/><BR/>In all of these areas, millenialism, deficits, and ambitions of empire, he compares the U.S. with other failed empires of the past: Rome, Spain, Britain, and the Hapsburgs.<BR/><BR/>He frequently returns to the Terri Schiavo episode as an exemplar of evangelical religion run amok.<BR/><BR/>As controversial (and tedious) as this book may be, it comes from an author who has a remarkable track record of political prediction over the last thirty years.<BR/><BR/>The book is all the more remarkable in that it was published before the 2006 election, whose outcome the book accurately foresaw.rev mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00797926517919336993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165839716747972702006-12-11T04:21:00.000-08:002006-12-11T04:21:00.000-08:00And ironically, many libertarians, especially thos...And ironically, many libertarians, especially those in the Libertarian Party, refuse to join the Republican Party for fear that it has been taken over by evagelical conservatives. <BR/><BR/>This "libertarian-Christian conservative" split is way over blown. There are so many areas where we libertarians have agreements with religious conservatives. School choice and rights of home schoolers for one. Gun rights for a number two. Tax cuts for married couples for a number three. I could go on. <BR/><BR/>Don't fall for the liberal media hype that the GOP coalition is falling apart. <BR/><BR/>I speak as a libertarian Republican. We must ALL UNITE against the greater threat of American liberalism AND fighting the Islamo-Fascists!<BR/><BR/>Eric at www.mainstreamlibertarian.comEric Donderohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02763399145451696076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165193050383254082006-12-03T16:44:00.000-08:002006-12-03T16:44:00.000-08:00A comment from the "other side". I grew up Christi...A comment from the "other side". I grew up Christian and very closely tied to the democratic party. My grandparents were loyal members of the senior democrats, largely because democrats supported integration. I thought I had good Christian reasons to support democrats and felt totally alienated from the Religious Right (though sharing Christian commitments). I am now a seminarian at a liberal-leaning institution. I am no more comfortable with the Christian Coalition or religious right, but I have also lost hope in the political left. I have appreciated the work of Jim Wallis for a few years now. But I am concerned that in trying to bring political concern for poverty into the Christian consciousness and in reaction to the link between Christians and the Right, he has recently appeared too close to the Democrats. Is this a fair concern?<BR/>l.e.lehallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04722591451886871394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165111439221535952006-12-02T18:03:00.000-08:002006-12-02T18:03:00.000-08:00Well, we certainly agree on that, Dr. Witherington...Well, we certainly agree on that, Dr. Witherington. The politics of fear are always and everywhere a potentially dangerous force. If you focus only on the evil of your enemy-- and the enemy that we are facing is about as evil as can be imagined-- you can excuse away <I>any</I> of your own errors or flaws. <BR/><BR/>Here is one of the <A HREF="http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm" REL="nofollow">most chilling quotes</A> I've come across in the past few years: "the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." --Hermann Goring.<BR/><BR/>I'd just add that the domestic politics of anger play a role in enabling the foreign policy of fear. <BR/><BR/>That is, if you've already decided that your domestic political opponents are a bunch of evil deluded malevolent losers, and the head of your party goes out there and says that we should live in fear of an attack from Iraq... you're just not as inclined to give opposing arguments as fair a hearing. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-goldberg19oct19,0,5993806.column?coll=la-opinion-center" REL="nofollow">Here's one conservative columnist's mea culpa</A> for supporting the Iraq war-- but note that it's more of a hate letter to the left than an examination of the writer's own mistakes. Clearly, being part of the favored team in domestic politics was-- and remains-- a more important consideration to this writer, and many, many others, than actually looking at the arguments and making a rational, common-sense-based determination. <BR/><BR/>As to what we could better have done with the money... well, we're spending about, what, $8 billion per month in Iraq? Yeah, every person in America over age 12 could probably come up with at least a dozen better things to have done with our money.Elvis Elvisberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660367309654478106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165061734115685772006-12-02T04:15:00.000-08:002006-12-02T04:15:00.000-08:00If you know the tree by the fruit it bears, then i...If you know the tree by the fruit it bears, then its understandable that many people are going to associate the word Evangelical with some unplesant and even unChristian things. <BR/><BR/>What concerns me as much as the reactionary politics of anger, is the reactionary politics of fear, and fear based practices-- a good example of which is the war in Iraq. If the issue had really been Saddam Hussein that could have been handled by means of special ops, to say the least. <BR/><BR/>No, what we are dealing with is a colossal over-reaction to our anger and fear, which is precisely the reaction terrorists want. The function of terrorism, since it can't muster a real war, is to strike terror into the hearts of one's large enemy hoping they will over-react, over-spend, and so waste their enormous resources in fruitless and pointless rearguard actions. <BR/><BR/>I can only imagine what would have happened if we spent all this money now wasted on the war on solving major global problems and root causes like poverty and ignorance through being a gracious and compassionate force for good. It certainly couldn't have turned out worst than this! <BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165044169552078782006-12-01T23:22:00.000-08:002006-12-01T23:22:00.000-08:00steve wrote: It seems there is a growing divide be...steve wrote: <I>It seems there is a growing divide between Evangelicals who are seeking to take Jesus' teachings on compassion and justice more seriously and not focusing exclusively on the "moral" issues of abortion and gay marriage.</I><BR/><BR/>You know, this really gets to the heart of things. Because the fact is that large portions of the country view gay marriage and the right to choose as moral issues-- and they come out the other way. <BR/><BR/>But there are lots of moral issues, of the sort to which Joel Hunter wanted to devote some time, that command broader support.<BR/><BR/>Barack Obama was on Jay Leno tonight, and in response to a question about the hoopla and excitement surrounding him, Obama said something more eloquent than, "people are projecting onto me their desire for a less rancorous type of politics. We can disagree without being disagreeable."<BR/><BR/>On this view, the split within the Republican Party, and among political evangelical leaders, is just a part of a larger fatigue with hyperpartisan, anger-based politics. <BR/><BR/>But the legislative process isn't really about outrage; it's about compromise. And I think Obama is right, that the electorate is sick of how polarized, unproductive, and marketing-based, rather than policy-based, politics has been of late. <BR/><BR/>Thing is, if you feel deeply that any abortion is a moral outrage, then it's only natural to come to politics driven by outrage, with a view that anyone who disagrees with you is on the side of evil (this is all the more intensified in a two-party system). And many people really do feel that way about abortion; but the number of people who feel differently won't allow them to ever get their views into law. <BR/><BR/>We can go through periods of heightened anger and partisanship, punctuated by bouts of fatigue and a more constructive politics, but I don't see how that undercurrent ever goes away.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for posting this article, Dr. Witherington. It's accurate in its broad conclusions-- there are fissures within the evangelical political movement, and the Republican Party. The writer has an unfortunate tendency to make unwarrantedly stark statements. Ie, he writes that Newt Gingrich led the libertarians and Ralph Reed led the politically active evangelicals (there was less clear leadership, and more overlap, than his statement implied), and that the GOP kicked Lincoln Chaffee to the curb (actually, they cut his primary opponent off at the knees and poured money into his general election, only to see him lose for the <I>sole</I> reason of his party affiliation).Elvis Elvisberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660367309654478106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165041666019927642006-12-01T22:41:00.000-08:002006-12-01T22:41:00.000-08:00Dear Dr Benspeaking as a first time commentator an...Dear Dr Ben<BR/><BR/>speaking as a first time commentator and some time reader. Thanks for your blog - a breath of fresh air in a weary world. <BR/><BR/>I'll put my cards on the table. I'm an outsider, I'm an English ex-pat in the US, I am a christian, I would be considered by many in the church as left-wing but by many on the left as an inconsistent centrist. To put it bluntly I don't really fit anywhere. You know, I'm a human being rather than a label.<BR/><BR/>I think your analysis seems plausible, and I think Gordon makes a thoughtful contribution here. What worries me about the conflation of evangelicalism and conservatism is three-fold. <BR/><BR/>First, it turns many away from Christ. I know many people attracted by the Christ they have read about in the gospel who have seen the antics of the usual suspects, who need not be named, and have struggled and turned away. Was this a reason or excuse? I don't know, but I think at least in some cases this was a real stumbling block.<BR/><BR/>Second, the reality is that the very word "evangelical" has become untenable for many people. A searching friend of mine once described his sense that "evangelical" equated to either "hate-filled bigot, or gullible idiot". Sure that's unfair - but he could truthfully point to those who described themselves as evangelical whose behaviour fitted his description perfectly. It struck me as terribly sad that such a hope-filled word should become so traduced.<BR/><BR/>Third, and most tragically it has limited evangelicals themselves, in both their personal Christ-likeness, their potential for growth, and their potential to serve, reach and influence the world.<BR/><BR/>The clergy council behavior genuinely disturbed me. Checking their website though I'm afraid my cynicism gland is stimulated when the most prominent link on the homepage is to give them a donation... :/<BR/><BR/>Thanks once again for your blog and I look forward to your bookExiled in mainstreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15621269957956075671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165026855337792252006-12-01T18:34:00.000-08:002006-12-01T18:34:00.000-08:00No Rev. Ken, you are not being naive, its just tha...No Rev. Ken, you are not being naive, its just that we are all beginning to wise up about what's really been going on. The good news is this "while winners win, losers learn". Maybe we will learn. <BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165026309225500712006-12-01T18:25:00.000-08:002006-12-01T18:25:00.000-08:00I confess that 8 years ago I never even would have...I confess that 8 years ago I never even would have considered voting for anyone not a Republican, but lately I have been more and more disappionted with the GOP. It seems as though the GOP and the pundits who support them are only concerned with the bottom line. Why doesn't the CC care about that? What should the government do about the poor & marginalized? Perhaps the Libertarians are on the right track...I think it was Tony Evans who pointed out that the only reason the government is involved in welfare is becaused the Church has largely ignored its "Biblical mandates to care for the poor and marginalized." Am I being naive?Rev.Kevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06044661958701778639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165025854203447782006-12-01T18:17:00.000-08:002006-12-01T18:17:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Rev.Kevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06044661958701778639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165021437216643782006-12-01T17:03:00.000-08:002006-12-01T17:03:00.000-08:00Hi Steve: Yes you are quite right. Its disturbing...Hi Steve: Yes you are quite right. Its disturbing. But they will be more disturbed when they see my book coming out late next year--- The Seven Deadly Sins of Evangelical America.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1165006802794172042006-12-01T13:00:00.000-08:002006-12-01T13:00:00.000-08:00Ben,ABC's Nightline program last night included a ...Ben,<BR/><BR/>ABC's Nightline program last night included a segment that addressed issues raised in the article you've posted. The piece highlighted the resignation of Rev. Joel Hunter before assuming the presidency of the Christian Coalition and the attacks agains Rick Warren for inviting Sen. Obama to address the Saddleback AIDS Conference. <BR/><BR/>It seems there is a growing divide between Evangelicals who are seeking to take Jesus' teachings on compassion and justice more seriously and not focusing exclusively on the "moral" issues of abortion and gay marriage. <BR/><BR/>The CC is aparently more interested in keeping its base happy so that it can raise money by focusing on the "threat" of gay marriage and abortion. It was disturbing to me how the CC leaders and Rev. Schenk of the National Clergy Council dismissed the Biblical mandates to care for the poor and marginalized in favor of continued oppostion to gay marriage and abortion rights. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for posting the article and for your witness.Steven Manskarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12481009878158561387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1164994111915917852006-12-01T09:28:00.000-08:002006-12-01T09:28:00.000-08:00In an interesting development today, the Clergy Co...In an interesting development today, the Clergy Council criticized Rick Warren for inviting Barak Obama to a summit meeting on AIDS at Saddleback. I guess that was too much like dancing with the Devil for some of those folks on that Council.Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1164982495284507512006-12-01T06:14:00.000-08:002006-12-01T06:14:00.000-08:00I think some of the political shift among evangeli...I think some of the political shift among evangelicals has to do with the fact that what Robert Webber calls "The Younger Evangelicals" are shifting away from or outright rejecting the close association of Evangelical Christianity with the Republican Party platform. Many younger evangelicals question the focus of the Christian right on certain issues to the exclusion of others that they see as equally biblical and important. I think that questioning your parents values, (though not necessarily rejecting them) is part of growing up, and trying establish your own identity. <BR/><BR/>I also think many younger evangelicals, as well as many other Christians, have grown weary of the culture war rhetoric and disposition, and are asking if this is really what the gospel is all about (I'm among this group). For many of us, the focus now is less on party politics and political victories, and is more on, to use a Stanley Hauerwas phrase, simply being the church, which, of course, has its own political implications.<BR/><BR/>I remember reading "Blnded by Might: Can the Religious Right Save America?" by Cal Thomas and Ed Dobson, several years ago. The authors pointed out then that nearly two decades of political involvement by Christians had produced very little in the way of lasting acheivements, and even the things we had acheived were easily undone when those with opposite views to ours got into power. <BR/><BR/>I don't think that Christians should avoid politics altogether, but I don't think we should put much stock in them either.Gordon Hackmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06342433273604253495noreply@blogger.com