tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post114470607405616702..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: The Gospel of Judas-- the NPR DiscussionBen Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1145026709018729342006-04-14T07:58:00.000-07:002006-04-14T07:58:00.000-07:00Your critique of the argument for a Greek original...Your critique of the argument for a Greek original based on Greek loan words illustrates the silly and irresponsible treatment of the linguistic evidence we often see employed by those who have some agenda to promote which has nothing whatsoever to do with to text under discussion. <BR/><BR/>Along this line it is also amazing that anti-Semitism and feminism should be topics of interest when discussing an ancient text. Who cares if the "gnostics" were proto-Nazis or their views on "gender" issues? This importation of late 20th century ideological categories into a discussion of an ancient text is an earmark of the worst sort of scholarship. David Irving was at one time a better historian than a great host of New Testament "experts" of the kind that show up on NPR programs. And David Irving the last I heard is doing time in an Austrian prison for airing his views 20 years ago.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps we should start putting New Testament scholars in prison for their ideological treatment of the scriptures. Seems only fair that they should do some hard time for being propaganda mongers.C. Stirling Bartholomewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03571440237755902925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144845393573376112006-04-12T05:36:00.000-07:002006-04-12T05:36:00.000-07:00I'm curious about what you mean with respect to th...I'm curious about what you mean with respect to the anti-semitic elements. Are you saying that the Gospel of Judas is anti-semitic in a way that the canonical gospels are not? I gather that you don't accept the claims of many scholars who claim that the internal criticism of Jesus and his followers of their fellow Jews counts as anti-semitism. So I'm wondering if this is just a further development in the direction that isn't really anti-semitism but that scholars have pretended is anti-semitism or if you think there's real anti-semitism in a way that the canonical gospels don't have it? I'd be reluctant to consider it anti-semitic simply to have said some things that Jews didn't agree with, but that's all you mention here. If it can be established that the motivation was hatred of Jews, then I could see it, but simply having a different cosmology from the Hebrew one doesn't seem to me in itself to be anti-semitic.Jeremy Piercehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03441308872350317672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144776221841382662006-04-11T10:23:00.000-07:002006-04-11T10:23:00.000-07:00The way the media plays this stuff up is unbelieva...The way the media plays this stuff up is unbelievable. If they had a clue how worthless these gnostic writings are for anything but understanding the gnostic movement itself, we wouldn't be hearing about this thing at all.C.P.O.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16880429004171251097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144774628401886162006-04-11T09:57:00.000-07:002006-04-11T09:57:00.000-07:00I actually found it.Gospel of Judas on On PointI actually found it.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2006/04/20060410_b_main.asp" REL="nofollow">Gospel of Judas on On Point</A>Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11540149196113374329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144771235269027102006-04-11T09:00:00.000-07:002006-04-11T09:00:00.000-07:00I'd like to hear this. Is it archived on NPR's sit...I'd like to hear this. Is it archived on NPR's site?<BR/><BR/>Thanks.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11540149196113374329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144762935573560792006-04-11T06:42:00.000-07:002006-04-11T06:42:00.000-07:00From what I have read of the Gospel of Judas, I am...From what I have read of the Gospel of Judas, I am not sure whether Jesus charged Judas to turn him over or if Jesus was stating a prophecy or foreknowledge of what Judas was about to do.<BR/><BR/>We can never correctly determine te heart or intent of another person - we are only limited to assumptions based on their actions.<BR/><BR/>The Gospels indicate that Judas hung himself after Jesus' death. My assumption - he was not thrilled wtih the results of his actions.Hepzibah The Watchmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17459404010681683434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144759097768366472006-04-11T05:38:00.000-07:002006-04-11T05:38:00.000-07:00wait a moment - so we should NOT rely on the authe...wait a moment - so we should NOT rely on the authenticity of the Gospel of Judas and, thereby, totally reconstruct our doctrine? Phew!Dan McGowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09523180205289209777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144755662940655442006-04-11T04:41:00.000-07:002006-04-11T04:41:00.000-07:00All I can say Ed, is that you are soooooooo righ...All I can say Ed, is that you are soooooooo right---<BR/><BR/>preach it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>BenBen Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144747207495033972006-04-11T02:20:00.000-07:002006-04-11T02:20:00.000-07:00Ben, you write: "When all the hype dies down, what...Ben, you write: <BR/>"When all the hype dies down, what we will be left with is further evidence of an interesting split off movement from early Christianity which began in the second century A.D. and was tolerated for two centuries by the church until the church fathers and mothers had heard quite enough of these fairy tales."<BR/>What fascinates me is not ancient Gnosticism, but its appeal to modern people. The resurgence of not just interest in Gnosticism, but the elements that make up Gnosticism that have emerged in the life of the church. The spiritual esotericism that can be found from left to right. The appeal of Gnosticism is that it allows for a self-authenticated spirituality. Perfect for a modern narcissistic culture. The fairy tales persist. Where people lack a spirituality rooted in the real world, they lack the affirmation of God's love and grace functioning in the real world. How sad it is to believe and never have assurance because one's faith remains an esoteric, personal faith disconnected from life.Ed Brenegarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08036929650700370713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144727019187729622006-04-10T20:43:00.000-07:002006-04-10T20:43:00.000-07:00Interesting...I don't know that I'd thought of thi...Interesting...I don't know that I'd thought of this as adding in historical understanding of the 2nd century.<BR/><BR/>--RC of strangeculture.blogspot.comRChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11340006144797496514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144723874880387662006-04-10T19:51:00.000-07:002006-04-10T19:51:00.000-07:00The shame of the format of this show was that you ...The shame of the format of this show was that you had one conservative guest who knew what he was talking about, two liberal scholars with fairly far out views, a talk show host who didn't have a clue, and a bunch of wine and cheese liberal callers who had even less of a clue. Thanks to Dr. Witherington for holding up the Lord's side of the debate... but it was an incredibly stacked deck.Fr. John Whitefordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455863282054302939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144723135225703962006-04-10T19:38:00.000-07:002006-04-10T19:38:00.000-07:00Thank you for these illuminating reflections on th...Thank you for these illuminating reflections on this current topic of conversation. This is a big help.Questing Parsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08944757278009104092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-1144707794941762592006-04-10T15:23:00.000-07:002006-04-10T15:23:00.000-07:00As I read the text of the document, I too thought ...As I read the text of the document, I too thought that it would be a favorite of anti-semites. The Jewishness of the gospel has completely disappeared.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the great analysis on whether this is mid-2d or early-4th century material.The Ole '55https://www.blogger.com/profile/03348690767240574333noreply@blogger.com