tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post3079189149266997724..comments2024-03-10T10:54:59.776-07:00Comments on Ben Witherington: The Zeitgeist of the 'Zeitgeist Movie'Ben Witheringtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-17607816816317466292009-04-19T08:53:00.000-07:002009-04-19T08:53:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington,
I would very much like to hear ...Dr. Witherington,<br /><br />I would very much like to hear your thoughts on a certain fragment of Zeitgeist. They quote Matt 28:20, wherein Jesus says: "I will be with you even to the end of the world." Peter Joseph states that in the King James version, "world" is a mistranslation. The actual word being used is "aeon", which means "age". Is this true? If so, doesn't this shed a a whole new light about Armageddon? This then, wouldn't be the end of the world, but just the end of an age.<br /><br />Hope this doesn't get posted twice. If so, my apologies.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Lou van Liebergen<br />The Netherlandsdon_luigi17https://www.blogger.com/profile/13790198076103596749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-3015541265228237752009-04-09T09:34:00.000-07:002009-04-09T09:34:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington-Thanks so much for your ministry....Dr. Witherington-<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for your ministry. How you balance your life I'll never know but I do appreciate well-thought and developed posts like this one.<BR/><BR/>-MattMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16351273421833040635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-48612489067135143422009-02-22T05:53:00.000-08:002009-02-22T05:53:00.000-08:00Those who call themselves Christians, or believe i...Those who call themselves Christians, or believe in a humanoid God who sits in the clouds will always find potholes in this film to criticize and to claim that this film, and the 'Christianity myth' is all fake...It just shows clearly how un-intelligent most of us have become, and that the power of religion...well...obviously works.<BR/>Progress is about thinking beyond your four walls and to view the world critically, as to find the empty voids only to replace them with the truth. I cannot 100% say that this film is full of truth, what I can say, is I was raised religiously, only to open my eyes as I matured to see it for the farce it truly is. Those who are religiously inclined will deny the fact of this film, as they find whatever sanctuary they need in their religion, and hence close their mind off to progress, and reality. The fact of the matter is, religion does not run smoothly with the scientific evidence on this Earth and it's true history, and those who cannot see that, are naive, and blind by their empty and controlling faith.<BR/>If religion simply is about spiritual comfort, and divine serenity, then one does have to wonder, why is it that the churches have legal immunity, why is it that they do not need to pay taxes and yet the receive billions in funds every year, for what? I do not believe in control, I simply believe in the truth, and whatever the truth is; it's not any religion that has been created here on Earth by us.<BR/>benoitdemarco@aol.com<BR/>www.bividium.350.comBenoit Vecetti de Marcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10803070378034147470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-57070788134200743582009-01-14T10:10:00.000-08:002009-01-14T10:10:00.000-08:00I wonder why you and your "religious" friends insi...I wonder why you and your "religious" friends insinuate that people are crazy if they question organized religion. <BR/><BR/>"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ. <BR/><BR/>GhandiAccidental Hippiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17907650959331498463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-83606724622110668972008-12-24T05:42:00.000-08:002008-12-24T05:42:00.000-08:00You all see the truth that you want to see. Be hap...You all see the truth that you want to see. Be happy in the ignorance of your dogmatic faithXamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12253415391037736358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-37241081206460988612008-11-26T08:32:00.000-08:002008-11-26T08:32:00.000-08:00Dear Ben,some time ago you allowed me to use parts...Dear Ben,<BR/><BR/>some time ago you allowed me to use parts of your most valuable article in a German translation on my blog.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again, and with my best wishes<BR/><BR/>Lechartre<BR/><BR/>http://zeitgeist-widerlegt.blogspot.com/Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00209396994878350329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-32882172540050362602008-11-24T14:58:00.000-08:002008-11-24T14:58:00.000-08:00Ben States:""Mr. John Allegro believed that Christ...Ben States:<BR/><BR/>""Mr. John Allegro believed that Christianity arose out of a mushroom cult. His work on the Dead Sea Scrolls was completely discredited by 99% of all the other scholars of some or no religion, and is considered a bad joke in the world of Dead Sea scholarship today.<BR/><BR/>Moslems, Jews, and Christians certainly have never worshipped any planets or stars. Theirs are not astrological religions, which distinguishes monotheism from Zoroastrianism.<BR/><BR/>The only persons who doubt the existence of Jesus of Nazareth are those who either hate Christianity and so want it to disappear, or those who have not bothered to do the proper historical homework.""<BR/><BR/><BR/>Hello Ben.<BR/>John Allegro believed that Judaism/Christianity was a fertility religion/mushroom cult, and That Jesus was a anthropomorphism of the mushroom, which is far more reasonable than the accepted version of Christian and Jewish mythology, as If his hypothesis were more ridiculous than believing, for example that a human being created the universe, revived from a horrible death, and floated bodily up to heaven.<BR/><BR/>Good news for those that like to try and discredit John Allegro.<BR/><BR/>The Holy Mushroom by Jan Irving has just been released which will vindicate John Allegro.<BR/>The Holy Mushroom:<BR/>Evidence of Mushrooms in Judeo-Christianity<BR/>A critical re-evaluation of the schism between John M. Allegro<BR/>and R. Gordon Wasson over the theory on the entheogenic origins of Christianity<BR/>Jan is also the co author (with Andrew Rutajit) of Astrotheology and Shamanism<BR/>Have you ever read The Sacred mushroom and the cross.<BR/>Have you checked the cross references for the book?<BR/>Have you ever read Astrotheology and Shamanism?<BR/><BR/>Another wonderful book that agrees with John Allegro just came out as well.<BR/>Failed God by John A. Rush Ph.D.<BR/>On a 2001 trip to the cathedrals of Europe, anthropologist John Rush and his wife entered St. Mark’s Basilica in Venice and encountered a mosaic depicting Jesus surrounded by mushrooms with an Amanita muscaria cap in his hand. Examining the space with new eyes, they discovered images of mushrooms and mind-altering plants all over the Basilica. Intrigued, Dr. Rush spent seven years researching and reflecting on the profound effects hallucinogens had on the founding of all three major Western religions. He concluded that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are political constructions evolving out of the use of not only Amanita muscaria, but a plethora of mind-altering substances.<BR/><BR/>You also state that Muslims, Jews, and Christians have never worshiped planets or stars.<BR/>Their religion is not an astrological religion.<BR/><BR/>Whenever you get a chance to read any number of works on astrotheology you might want to reconsider your statements, which are by the way outright lies.<BR/><BR/>Start of with Suns of God and see If maybe you can debunk that book, which by the way has yet to be touched by any credible scholar.<BR/>check out Astrotheology and Shamanism and tell me that all three major religions are not influenced by planets or stars.<BR/><BR/>Did you know the Sun feeds five thousand (and more)?<BR/>Is the light of the world.<BR/>Brings health and healing to all nations.<BR/>Can walk or dance upon the water.<BR/>Can rise and descend with the clouds.<BR/>The Sun overcomes the darkness.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, all these things have been applied to Jesus.yashua1970https://www.blogger.com/profile/13667338025520692698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-13820735795601790692008-11-18T08:22:00.000-08:002008-11-18T08:22:00.000-08:00Ben, quite a bit of information in the Zeitgeist m...Ben, quite a bit of information in the Zeitgeist movie. Since you chose to focus on the religion/Christianity segment, a question about Christian scholarship. What are your thoughts on the published works of Christian scholars like Gerd Ludemann and Bart Erhman?<BR/><BR/>Heretics: The Other Side of Early Christianity: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0664220851/ref%3Dpd_sim_books/002-8142252-7792035<BR/><BR/>The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament: http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Corruption-Scripture-Christological-Controversies/dp/0195102797/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227023169&sr=1-12<BR/><BR/>John 14.12Tony Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468710854208742295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-87776760837210316822008-11-16T21:45:00.000-08:002008-11-16T21:45:00.000-08:00Alright people... here is my opinion, my perspecti...Alright people... here is my opinion, my perspective, take it only in that way... think for yourself... draw your own conclusions...<BR/><BR/>Enough with trying to debunk 911 - which is now a conspiracy. Conspiracies are events that have such diluted, contorted, conflicting facts that no agreeable judgment or ratification can be concluded because our system of proof relies on factual basis. Everyone is searching and comparing facts, running in circles of he said she said. Facts can't successfully prove truth, truth is actually felt. Can we prove Jesus or other religious icons are real? Can we prove there are souls or spirits? Can we actually prove gravity (we really can't, even though you think we can)? (For religious people, this might go against your beliefs and inner agreement system... but that's ok, theres a time...) - So with all of that said, the only point I will draw is if there is one item that is not correct in the whole 911 situation, then the entire event is extremely questionable. A building that never suffered an impact or severe structural impact nicely (and almost planned) compacts to the ground... how does that happen? Theres your one thread of disbelief... the rest is history.<BR/><BR/>As for proving religious topics... Have you met jesus? Have you talked to horus. Forget about religion. For those of us that can think outside the box, religion is already debunked and has been for a long time. Sorry fellow religious people, please do not take this as any sort of personal attack. Don't try to contest my opinion, as it is only a misuse of your energy and won't have the effect you desire. :-/<BR/><BR/>Zeitgeist's point was to show the profit driven world we live in. We are acting on a "separated" mentality and not acting as a species. We are a part of nature. We are an organism (not going into depth). We need to act as one and for the benefit of one. Yes, these philosophies are Utopian, and to those who haven't been "awakened" believe this concept is very unattainable. However, all I can say is it's a matter of time. Go on with your beliefs and inner agreement systems, but life will unfold, things will happen, events will occur, and life will as nature does, change.<BR/><BR/>I write this only with the intent that maybe one person questions them self. I hope to reach one person. As long as I've done that, this was complete success of my time.<BR/><BR/>For the record, I live in a mountain and donate my time and energy towards helping humanity in this pivotal time we are entering. Learn to survive, get back to the basics... One day you might need it. My love goes out to everyone. If you let any of my message effect you negatively, my love and sorrow reaches out to you.<BR/><BR/>Peace. :-)The Rife Sourcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18370669246635995474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-78503750922261502052008-10-18T11:13:00.000-07:002008-10-18T11:13:00.000-07:00hi,just reading you all arguing and coming up with...hi,<BR/>just reading you all arguing and coming up with your own ideas that proves or disproves each other's theories. <BR/>the truth is simple-this movie shaked this pathetical world order, thanks to all religious fanatics who brought nothing good to this world with your evil religion.<BR/>religion is dead-you like it or not. religion is dying with or without this movie. here is the time when people are start waking up to new reality, new ideas, new era. <BR/>the real freedom is herenaskaishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17014649952394803847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-41612222020858093902008-10-07T22:42:00.001-07:002008-10-07T22:42:00.001-07:00Religion is the mind's best attempt to explain sel...Religion is the mind's best attempt to explain self. So long as the mind is functional, religion will continue. Regarding the movie Zeitgeist, it is successful at provoking thought. Unfortunately, it should have left out the religious arguments so that we might focus on some of the more important issues. Religious debate is futile given the nature and origin of it. Ironically this arguement has us wasting time. We really should be discussing brutal politics that keeps entire nations impoverished (watch Zeitgeist - Addendum). Thanks for listening. ~ AdamUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775381713428935133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-29533118609884269772008-08-09T16:19:00.000-07:002008-08-09T16:19:00.000-07:00What about the rest of the movie?What about the rest of the movie?Soullesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552111687886990980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-40062341207492969822008-07-23T12:33:00.000-07:002008-07-23T12:33:00.000-07:00Not all Christians believe just because someone to...Not all Christians believe just because someone told them it was true. I for one am not so blind and ignorant to simply believe something because someone told me it was true. I am the type of person that wants real raw facts to back up everything I believe in. I wont settle for someones word, because that's pretty much worthless.Licht2202https://www.blogger.com/profile/15997274817286524246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-82382257920220312422008-07-17T02:50:00.000-07:002008-07-17T02:50:00.000-07:00This is just typical reactions from the citizens o...This is just typical reactions from the citizens of Gods country. I think It would be fare to say that many of you are blinded by the indoctrination, that have been forced upon you from birth. Not only Americans all believers.<BR/>Religion:Christianity, Judaism, Islam etc. all these "accepted" religions are basically a tool to control the masses. they are no different from any new-age religions or cults.<BR/>butt still even if all of it from my point of view is absolutely bullshit! I can see why some people choose to believe. life can be hard sometimes and it is much easier to go with the flow and let Gods devine plan take it course. but why not choose to think for yourself take responsiblity, live your life, instead of being dictated by ancient myths!The Danehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05005480936570887381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-63283221221160536102008-07-10T11:49:00.000-07:002008-07-10T11:49:00.000-07:00I'm glad to see another blog that brings notice to...I'm glad to see another blog that brings notice to the ridiculous attack on Christianity brought on by the Zeitgeist movie. Pretty much everything in the first part of the movie is completely made up. I've also started a blog outlining some obvious errors in the film.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://zeitgeistmoviepart1.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">zeitgeistmoviepart1.blogspot.com</A>Licht2202https://www.blogger.com/profile/15997274817286524246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-43274331783419116152008-06-03T13:42:00.000-07:002008-06-03T13:42:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington,Thanks for your post on this film...Dr. Witherington,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your post on this film. Zeitgeist is a slick, well-edited production of misinformation and propaganda of one who has a severe dislike of Christianity. My chiropractor (a practioner of Ba'hai and who is a motivational speaker about 'The Secret' suggested I watch this film and tell him what I think). It's too bad that he probably believes the credibility of the film without doing the serious research required to discern the truthfullness of what is presented. Misquote sources, insert some sound-bites and haunting musical score, and throw in some rants against Christianity and like magic - truth disappears out the window. I especially like the etymologically incorrect transformation of 'Sun' in 'Son' to relate to Jesus (or most of the producers use of phrases, etc.) That was quite ingenious.EPFehrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06779260826139931220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-89711644956787649192008-05-28T21:40:00.000-07:002008-05-28T21:40:00.000-07:00Ben,I see that you have responded to my questions ...Ben,<BR/><BR/>I see that you have responded to my questions from the Jesus Puzzle that I submitted not too long ago. Thanks Dr. Witherington! For those who are interested in his thoughts on that, here is the link:<BR/><BR/>http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2008/03/earl-dohertys-jesus-puzzle-exercise-in.htmlTroy Criderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12779357027536752406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-58789870958568045932008-04-09T11:14:00.000-07:002008-04-09T11:14:00.000-07:00Dr W,I'm sorry, but I couldn't post on the origina...Dr W,<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, but I couldn't post on the original thread for this argument. It wouldn't open the page on my web-browser for some reason. No matter, this post is similar to the one I wanted. <BR/><BR/>When you gave the Jesus Puzzle the punishin' it deserved, you commented that there is clear manuscript evidence that Acts is a first century document. I have ordered your commentary and expect it any day now, but I could not wait. i've been studying Acts for some time now and had never heard of these early copies. I was wondering if you might clarify something for me. I asked Dr Daniel Wallace if he had ever heard of these manuscripts and he responded that he contacted MacQuarie in Sydney and they only have one NT manuscript in the country! It is indeed a copy of Acts, but it is dated to the third century. I think maybe I misunderstood your original post. But I can't open it so I can't go back to find out. Just wondering if you might comment.<BR/><BR/>Waynewolf_scionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17159984739345089005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-45029934712695102642008-04-04T14:34:00.000-07:002008-04-04T14:34:00.000-07:00Wow Ben, this essay showing that the Zeitgeist mov...Wow Ben, this essay showing that the Zeitgeist movie is poorly researched seems to have brought the crazies out of the woodwork. In answer to you they present... poor research.<BR/><BR/>Sad, very sad.Duke of Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14891442161634560912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-57732203432659358672008-03-25T03:37:00.000-07:002008-03-25T03:37:00.000-07:00Sorry NF but you have no idea what you're talking ...Sorry NF but you have no idea what you're talking about. Firstly, there is no evidence Abraham was a Sumerian priest of any kind. Ur was in the Chaldees, not ancient Sumeria any way. Secondly, I have read the Book of the Dead, and the ten commandments are nowhere mentioned in there, so someone has been lying to you about that. Thirdly, you are quite wrong about Jesus. He is mentioned by both Jewish and Roman historians of the first and second centuries A.D. Try and get your facts straight.<BR/><BR/>BW3Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-84460704158225440912008-03-24T20:43:00.000-07:002008-03-24T20:43:00.000-07:00Sorry Mr. Ben, but there are lots of mistakes on y...Sorry Mr. Ben, but there are lots of mistakes on you refutation either.<BR/><BR/>You both (includind the movie's author) forgot about Abrahan. A Sumerian priest from Ur. The Sumerian religion (the very first monotheist cult) are way older than Judaism and keep an astounding relation. And Moses spent much of his life in Egypt... The Egyptian Book of Death X 10 commandments relation are OBVIOUS and undeniable. <BR/><BR/>Long story short: there's NO historical evidence of Jesus. ALL we know about this figure comes from NT, written from abstract oral stories at least 40 years after the so-called facts! And let's not forget Nicea and Trento Councils that edited those post-writtens even more. And the Bible itself is a collection writtens encrypted and edited all way through long and different periods of times. So why bother arguing from something so fragile?aaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08300661229017564714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-38405230800757135412008-03-22T01:27:00.000-07:002008-03-22T01:27:00.000-07:00Happy Easter holidaysLechartre12:29 PM Ben Witheri...Happy Easter holidays<BR/><BR/>Lechartre<BR/><BR/>12:29 PM<BR/><BR/><BR/> Ben Witherington said... <BR/>Yes Lechartre, you may use my materials. <BR/><BR/>BW3<BR/><BR/>1:04 PM<BR/><BR/>------<BR/><BR/>Saturday, 22nd March, 2008<BR/><BR/>Thanks a lot!<BR/><BR/>God bless you.<BR/><BR/>LechartreMariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00209396994878350329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-30337814724289407102008-03-21T13:04:00.000-07:002008-03-21T13:04:00.000-07:00Yes Lechartre, you may use my materials. BW3Yes Lechartre, you may use my materials. <BR/><BR/>BW3Ben Witheringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06017701050859255865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-26364891416831199282008-03-21T12:29:00.000-07:002008-03-21T12:29:00.000-07:00Dear Dr. Witherington,thank you so much for this m...Dear Dr. Witherington,<BR/><BR/>thank you so much for this most valuable work on the Zeitgeist film!<BR/><BR/>This is to ask your permission to use passages of your article - of course citing your complete internet address and name - in my efforts to refute the assertions of Part 1 of the Zeitgeist Movie which unfortunately arrived in Germany - including my German translation. Of course I will be glad to give you more details by mail.<BR/><BR/>Happy Eastern holidays<BR/><BR/>LechartreMariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00209396994878350329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11840313.post-50643396766947882792008-03-09T10:03:00.000-07:002008-03-09T10:03:00.000-07:00Dr. Witherington,I too would like to see you do a ...Dr. Witherington,<BR/><BR/>I too would like to see you do a series on the Jesus Puzzle as propagated by Earl Doherty and His followers. There are many who have followed in the steps of G.A. Wells and Earl Doherty, that claim a historical Jesus never existed. Today's evangelical scholars may laugh at this, but I'm afraid that while they aren't taking this seriously, the skeptics, atheists, and those who are on the fence so to speak see this as a dodging of the truth, and it in turn just presents a reason to them to doubt the historical Jesus' existence even more. I really hope you'll consider the claims made by Doherty and give at least a decent treatment on them. Doherty's twelve thesis are as follows<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 1: A CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE<BR/><BR/>The Gospel story, with its figure of Jesus of Nazareth, cannot be found before the Gospels. In Christian writings earlier than Mark, including almost all of the New Testament epistles, as well as in many writings from the second century, the object of Christian faith is never spoken of as a human man who had recently lived, taught, performed miracles, suffered and died at the hands of human authorities, or rose from a tomb outside Jerusalem. There is no sign in the epistles of Mary or Joseph, Judas or John the Baptist, no birth story, teaching or appointment of apostles by Jesus, no mention of holy places or sites of Jesus’ career, not even the hill of Calvary or the empty tomb. This silence is so pervasive and so perplexing that attempted explanations for it have proven inadequate.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 2: A MUTE RECORD WORLD WIDE<BR/><BR/>The first clear non-Christian reference to Jesus as a human man in recent history is made by the Roman historian Tacitus around 115 CE, but he may simply be repeating newly-developed Christian belief in an historical Jesus in the Rome of his day. Several earlier Jewish and pagan writers are notably silent. The Antiquities of the Jews by the Jewish historian Josephus, published in the 90s, contains two famous references to Jesus, but these are inconclusive. The first passage, as it stands, is universally acknowledged to be a later Christian insertion, and attempts have failed to prove some form of authentic original; the second also shows signs of later Christian tampering. References to Jesus in the Jewish Talmud are garbled and come from traditions which were only recorded in the third century and later.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 3: REVEALING THE SECRET OF CHRIST<BR/><BR/>Paul and other early writers speak of the divine Son of their faith entirely in terms of a spiritual, heavenly figure; they never identify this entity called "Christ Jesus" (literally, "Anointed Savior" or "Savior Messiah") as a man who had lived and died in recent history. Instead, through the agency of the Holy Spirit, God has revealed the existence of his Son and the role he has played in the divine plan for salvation. These early writers talk of long-hidden secrets being disclosed for the first time to apostles like Paul, with no mention of an historical Jesus who played any part in revealing himself, thus leaving no room for a human man at the beginning of the Christian movement. Paul makes it clear that his knowledge and message about the Christ is derived from scripture under God’s inspiration.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 4: A SACRIFICE IN THE SPIRITUAL REALM<BR/><BR/>Paul does not locate the death and resurrection of Christ on earth or in history. According to him, the crucifixion took place in the spiritual world, in a supernatural dimension above the earth, at the hands of the demon spirits (which many scholars agree is the meaning of "rulers of this age" in 1 Corinthians 2:8). The Epistle to the Hebrews locates Christ’s sacrifice in a heavenly sanctuary (ch. 8, 9). The Ascension of Isaiah, a composite Jewish-Christian work of the late first century, describes (9:13-15) Christ’s crucifixion by Satan and his demons in the firmament (the heavenly sphere between earth and moon). Knowledge of these events was derived from visionary experiences and from scripture, which was seen as a ‘window’ onto the higher spiritual world of God and his workings.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 5: SALVATION IN A LAYERED UNIVERSE<BR/><BR/>The activities of gods in the spiritual realm were part of ancient views (Greek and Jewish) of a multi-layered universe, which extended from the base world of matter where humans lived, through several spheres of heaven populated by various divine beings, angels and demons, to the highest level of pure spirit where the ultimate God dwelled. In Platonic philosophy (which influenced Jewish thought), the upper spiritual world was timeless and perfect, serving as a model for the imperfect and transient material world below; the former was the "genuine" reality, accessible to the intellect. Spiritual processes took place there, with their effects, including salvation, on humanity below. Certain "human characteristics" given to Christ (e.g., Romans 1:3) were aspects of his spirit world nature, higher counterparts to material world equivalents, and were often dependent on readings of scripture.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 6: A WORLD OF SAVIOR DEITIES<BR/><BR/>Christ’s features and myths are in many ways similar to those of the Greco-Roman salvation cults of the time known as "mystery religions", each having its own savior god or goddess. Most of these (e.g., Dionysos, Mithras, Attis, Isis, Osiris) were part of myths in which the deity had overcome death in some way, or performed some act which conferred benefits and salvation on their devotees. Such activities were viewed as taking place in the upper spirit realm, not on earth or in history. Most of these cults had sacred meals (like Paul’s Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11:23f) and envisioned mystical relationships between the believer and the god similar to what Paul speaks of with Christ. Early Christianity was a Jewish sectarian version of this widespread type of belief system, though with its own strong Jewish features and background.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 7: THE INTERMEDIARY SON<BR/><BR/>The Christian "Son" is also an expression of the overriding religious concept of the Hellenistic age, that the ultimate God is transcendent and can have no direct contact with the world of matter. He must reveal himself and deal with humanity through an intermediary force, such as the "Logos" of Platonic (Greek) philosophy or the figure of "personified Wisdom" of Jewish thinking; the latter is found in documents like Proverbs, Baruch and the Wisdom of Solomon. This force was viewed as an emanation of God, his outward image, an agency which had helped create and sustain the universe and now served as a channel of knowledge and communion between God and the world. All these features are part of the language used by early Christian writers about their spiritual "Christ Jesus", a heavenly figure who was a Jewish sectarian version of these prevailing myths and thought patterns. <BR/><BR/>Piece No. 8: A SINGLE STORY OF JESUS<BR/><BR/>All the Gospels derive their basic story of Jesus of Nazareth from a single source: whoever produced the first version of Mark. That Matthew and Luke are reworkings of Mark with extra, mostly teaching, material added is now an almost universal scholarly conclusion, while many also consider that John has drawn his framework for Jesus’ ministry and death from a Synoptic source as well. We thus have a Christian movement spanning half the empire and a full century which nevertheless has managed to produce only one version of the events that are supposed to lie at its inception. Acts, as an historical witness to Jesus and the beginnings of the Christian movement, cannot be relied upon, since it is a tendentious creation of the second century, dependent on the Gospels and designed to create a picture of Christian origins traceable to a unified body of apostles in Jerusalem who were followers of an historical Jesus. Many scholars now admit that much of Acts is sheer fabrication.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 9: THE GOSPELS AS (FICTIONAL) "MIDRASH"<BR/><BR/>Not only do the Gospels contain basic and irreconcilable differences in their accounts of Jesus, they have been put together according to a traditional Jewish practice known as "midrash", which involved reworking and enlarging on scripture. This could entail the retelling of older biblical stories in new settings. Thus, Mark’s Jesus of Nazareth was portrayed as a new Moses, with features that paralleled the stories of Moses. Many details were fashioned out of specific passages in scripture. The Passion story itself is a pastiche of verses from the Psalms, Isaiah and other prophets, and as a whole it retells a common tale found throughout ancient Jewish writings, that of the Suffering and Vindication of the Innocent Righteous One. It is quite possible that Mark, at least, did not intend his Gospel to represent an historical figure or historical events, and designed it to provide liturgical readings for Christian services on the Jewish model. Liberal scholars now regard the Gospels as "faith documents" and not accurate historical accounts.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 10: THE COMMUNITY OF "Q"<BR/><BR/>In Galilean circles distinct from those of the evangelists (who were probably all located in Syria), a Jewish movement of the mid-first century preaching the coming of the Kingdom of God put together over time a collection of sayings, ethical and prophetic, now known as Q. The Q community eventually invented for itself a human founder figure who was regarded as the originator of the sayings. In ways not yet fully understood, this figure fed into the creation of the Gospel Jesus, and the sayings document was used by Matthew and Luke to flesh out their reworking of Mark’s Gospel. Some modern scholars believe they have located the "genuine" Jesus at the roots of Q, but Q’s details and pattern of evolution suggest that no Jesus was present in its earlier phases, and those roots point to a Greek style of teaching known as Cynicism, one unlikely to belong to any individual, let alone a Jewish preacher of the Kingdom.<BR/><BR/>Piece No. 11: A RIOTOUS DIVERSITY<BR/><BR/>The documentary record reveals an early Christian landscape dotted with a bewildering variety of communities and sects, rituals and beliefs about a Christ/Jesus entity, most of which show little common ground and no central authority. Also missing is any idea of apostolic tradition tracing back to a human man and his circle of disciples. Scholars like to style this situation as a multiplicity of different responses to the historical Jesus, but such a phenomenon is not only incredible, it is nowhere attested to in the evidence itself. Instead, all this diversity reflects independent expressions of the wider religious trends of the day, based on expectation of God’s Kingdom, and on belief in an intermediary divine force which provided knowledge of God and a path to salvation. Only with the Gospels, which began to appear probably toward the end of the first century, were many of these elements brought together to produce the composite figure of Jesus of Nazareth, set in a midrashic story about a life, ministry and death located in the time of Herod and Pontius Pilate. <BR/><BR/>Piece No. 12: JESUS BECOMES HISTORY<BR/><BR/>As the midrashic nature of the Gospels was lost sight of by later generations of gentile Christians, the second century saw the gradual adoption of the Gospel Jesus as an historical figure, motivated by political considerations in the struggle to establish orthodoxy and a central power amid the profusion of early Christian sects and beliefs. Only with Ignatius of Antioch, just after the start of the second century, do we see the first expression in Christian (non-Gospel) writings of a belief that Jesus had lived and died under Pilate, and only toward the middle of that century do we find any familiarity in the wider Christian world with written Gospels and their acceptance as historical accounts. Many Christian apologists, however, even in the latter part of the century, ignore the existence of a human founder in their picture and defense of the faith. By the year 200, a canon of authoritative documents had been formed, reinterpreted to apply to the Jesus of the Gospels, now regarded as a real historical man. Christianity entered a new future founded on a monumental misunderstanding of its own past.Troy Criderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12779357027536752406noreply@blogger.com